Competition is good for any business - it makes everyone else improve their product. I find amusement in those that decide which car is better based on pure numbers (0-60, 1/4mile, cornering g's, mpg, price, etc.) I pick my cars based on how they make me feel when I drive/own them. I always own several "fun" cars from a lot of different manufacturers, each giving me a different kind of satisfaction or pleasure. I suppose those that don't even own these type of cars or those that need to race other drivers, to prove something may feel different, but I don't have to prove anything to anybody. I drive what I like.
I wondered when someone was going to bring some reality to this discussion the interior of my TR buckled in the sun the bolsters in the seats ripped and my 355 was sticky. All cars have issues I love my Ferraris I have a C6 coupe I drive as my daily driver I have had jags, MGBs, Lotus etc if you are a car guy you love cars not because they cost 250K or come from GM certain cars appeal I wonder what some of the negative comment folks drive as their everyday driver bet they dont all cost 250K and heaven preserve us they may have plastic in them NOOOOOOOO!
Really ?? Lets do the math. New ZR1 100k. 2002 Z06 (35K)...35,000 kms........20K for the parts bins as you call it. Slap alittle NOS kit and some other little tricks (manifolds, muffler) 10K ...and bingo 65K and i got 600 Hp and 35k in the bank Then the other option like i mentioned wait 3 years...buy it used for 50K...either way....im ahead...not worth the 100K they talk about for what you get. Looks good (i like the look, minus that engine hood display thingy)....but it just looks cheaply built still...just like the rest of the GM products. They should really try and do something in that arena. But i bet its one hellava ride ! This car will only be around the North American market, the rest of the world will not accept it. The stigma that its a Chevy will still haunt this car, no matter how fast it goes.
It's funny how much talk on this board there is about power, numbers, laptimes, etc. But then in this thread, it's "feel" and "passion" and all sorts of vague bull****. I guess whatever it takes to justify spending more for a slower car in the PERFORMANCE sector of the market. Some of you may get off on stitching quality and the "feel" of the leather; I guess the 'Vette is for those of us who get off on going FAST.
Not true...the real problem is that 90% of ferraris owners can purchase a new Corvette. 90% of Corvette owners cannot purchase a ferrari....this is where the problem begins. Therefore, Corvette owners try and justify why its better than a ferrari (Speed, power, price) and the ferrari owner doesnt even look a vette in the same league as a package. Its like comparing a Rolex to a Timex, we know they tell the time the exta same way, its just what you prefer....remember, its not how fast you go...its how you go fast Would i buy it for 100K........Nope, i would much rather have a BB boxer if i could even get one for 100k....i would wait 3 years and then buy it the ZR1 used for 50K and enjoy it. I cant wait to see one, and go for a spin.
If this were that true, they wouldn't be selling the new ones like they are. This applies to any model of car that is updated- heck, you could slap some nitrous on a 360 and not only have a FASTER car, but a LIGHTER and more BEAUTIFUL (cmon... I love the F430, but let's be honest here ) car for about half the cost. Yet I'd like to see someone other than Kimi Raikkoenen try to walk into a Ferrari dealership and walk out with a car at MSRP.
How the hell do you know about the quality of materials? You haven't even seen the car. What's more technically advanced about the GT-R? How will it be faster when it's N-ring times are *barely* in front of the base Z-06 which put up its times on FUN FLAT KOREAN TIRES. LMAO. Stop trying to play engineer online. You're terrible at it. You're forgetting the point of the car. It's not for posing around. It's not for having pretty seats. It's not meant to be exclusive. GM isn't forcing people to pay extra money needlessly just for the bragging right of having coil springs. The point of this car is to go fast around a race track while maintaining the legality needed to get it to and from those tracks on US roads. How many track days have you done? What's your motorsport background? It's funny to see so many of you bash the hell out of this car, just because it doesn't fit YOUR needs. Your needs are to have something that's rare and exclusive that has a long waitlist, a big markup, and comfortable seats so you can cruise around town. This car on the other hand is focused purely on track days, and in that sense it will MURDER ANY Ferrari in ALL track related categories. It's cheaper to buy, insure, easier to replace if you wreck it, cheaper to run and maintain, considerable easier to maintain and repair, and the big one: FASTER in braking, cornering, straight line acceleration and overall laptimes. You're rebuttal to all these? The leather is crap, the wheels are blingy, and stereo probably sucks, it has a domestic badge on it, and might not sound as nice. News flash: none of that **** matters at the racetrack!
you joking ?? Every chevy dealership around me that has the Corvette, has a BLOW out sale every fall. Yes, its a 100k, and some will be sold...but a year after, they will be selling for 85K. The Rons fellows (white CDN) car that was limited to 399 cars, Wilson Nibs had 2 of them here last year...108...they sat for month, then has a special on it...i think it sold for around the 95K mark. I went to see it a few times, loved it, but i couldnt get past the white. No doubt this car will be a big seller...it has alot going for it...and i am finally happy GM can put out a half decent car between the Caddy CTS (2008) and the Corvette since (2002) with the Zo6. Hopefully, the General will continue on this path and become a leader again. Its a step in the right direction. I cant wait to test drive this Zr1 and see what it does for the price.
There are significantly less expensive ways to go fast. Tuned Supras with a NOS kit will eat any standard Ferrari or Porsche or $100K Corvette for breakfast. It's relative value at stake here. What would you rather have? A new $100K corvette or a hardly used 550 Maranello - both around $100K. I suspect I know the answer for most people on this board will be the 550. Not because it's faster, but because it's an iconic car from am iconic manufacturer. Corvettes will always be Corvettes, no matter how you dress them up. GM tried their best to create a two seater convertible with their Caddy XLR to compete against Mercedes and I doubt that they got even one person to pass on an SL for an XLR. Similarly I doubt anyone who was seriously considering a Ferrari of any description or a high end Porsche, would switch to a new Corvette. They are simply in different market segments and car buyers are almost impossible to move into a different segment, especially one where the general perception is that the segment is further downmarket from where they are now. That's just a marketing reality. It's not class warfare or disrespect. The only disrespect for Corvettes and GM is self inflicted by GM. It will take many generations of continuing improvement and excellence for that to be replaced by genuine admiration.
Not around a lap of a track they won't. And not at any kind of reliability standard you'd need for continuous track work. NOS for open lapping? LOL! Have you ever done a track day? The vette. I'd be at least 3 seconds a lap faster in it, and I do a lot of track days. If I had to drive it to work as well, I'd take the Maranello. But I don't ;-) Anyone who wanted the car for track use would consider and probably make the switch. How many people do you know who track their ferrari's 7, 10, 15+ times a year? The reason all these people you talk of wouldn't switch is because they aren't looking for a track car! This car is clearly a track car!!!
if you combine the totals right now. Its 74 yes and 75 no. A lot of people here still respect the good old Vette.
I voted no although I would drive a GM made vehicle. The Vette does provide a lot of bang for the buck. It really comes down to personal taste and I would not buy one for $100K. It is a fact that GM cars do not compare to FCars and total performance is only one aspect. If performance was the only yardstick that buyers care about and these cars are so amazing then GM would try to sell them for the same price as a Ferrari or Porsche with similar performance. The price reflects the cars Value.
IMO, a true motorsports enthusiast/car nut can appreciate all sporting cars. I've owned 6 porsches and one ferrari, and have never owned but have driven modern vettes. I wouldn't buy a vette, but they are awesome for what they are, which is unrelenting performance for a reasonable price. This thread is an embarassment to Fchat.
Hey if you want to kill the new scuderia you could always strap a rocket to a shopping cart. You would probably beat everything and the handling would be at par with this Corvette....
I owned Corvette before i bought 360. I always liked Corvettes and alwas will, but i would never buy Vette again since after i bought and driven Fcar, it would be only disappointment for me.....
AeroGT3RedWing, your correct I have not seen this car but your absolutely missing the point of my comment. I actually said the perception of people in UK is that the US automotive industry typically uses cheap quality materials and has a worse build quality than European alternatives. Why would this GM's Vette fair any better in people's perceptions? In Europe our mainstream brands are Mercedes, BMW and Audi. If the interior quality of this road car is any lower than these brands for a sports car its very difficult to be taken serious, especially at a $200K price point (equivalent to how much we will have to pay to enjoy your $100K toy). This car needs to compete with the Audi R8 for quality, fit and finish to have a chance in Europe. For a car to be quick around the ring it doesn't actually need to be very technically advanced, throw on a set of slicks, use brute force horsepower, a well set up suspension (to the ring) and ceramic brakes are all that's required. A car can be great on the track and absolutely hopeless on the road crashing over every pothole and being generally horrible with its NHV characteristics - that doesn't make a great road car. As a competant fast road car the new GT-R is technically ahead of the Vette as a dual role car, perhaps not in brute force grunt but in chassis dynamics and overall fast road usability and weekend track fun. Regarding engineering background, I would caution you to look before you leap. Just how many worldwide engineering patents have you got in your name? Have you ever designed and produced racing parts on CNC machines? Ever designed and written software for car systems? I am actually building a lightweight 1050kg Ferrari 360 with 600hp twin turbo at this moment, properly corner weighted and prepped for non competative circuit racing pleasure. If you start to talk about a real competative road legal racing toys don't even talking road legal cars, cars designed for the road are compromised from day one. Just buy a proper lightweight toy (less than 500kg's) and don't even attempt to make it road legal - it will just majorly compromise things, stop thinking you can make a competetive car and drive it home. A road legal track car is always a compromise, its not at all competative to a track only car, its just designed to appeal to amateurs having fun. There is nothing wrong with that but it means it should be a great road car too otherwise there is just no point. Regarding bashing the hell out of the car, all I said is that in its current specification it will never sell in the UK in for all the reasons I described. Perhaps GM don't care? I am glad they are building this car but I absolutely stand by these statement's. Its a shame but GM would absolutely fail miserably with this product anywhere outside its home market, its no wonder its not trying to sell this car into Europe. It is not anything to do with fitting my specific needs, I'm talking about a whole country, actually come to think of it, the rest of the world. If GM looked towards the GT-R they would see its actually a proper 'world car', just like modern Ferrari's are. The Vette is very much a car designed to appeal to its domestic market. This is a shame because with a little bit more thought it could have been a great world car - which sadly it isnt.
Virtually every Ferrari made in the last 60 years exists as iconic collectible car cherished by its owner and admired by most gear heads. Look at any Vette between 10 and 40 years old and you just have a used-up GM car fabricated from materials selected by the GM accountants. Also by comparison, used Vipers have never seemed to descend into the Vette abyss. Every Viper made in the past 15 years is a highly regarded sports car icon and will no doubt stay collectible. Go figure!
There is more to choosing a car than a spec sheet. Sure the specs are impressive but to me it is just a Corvette that goes well but has no style, grace, or elegance in its execution. We can all argue until we are blue in the face but one thing is for sure. Car makers are in the business of selling cars and making money and there is a reason Corvette can't sell cars for the same price as a Ferrari even if it performs better. If they could you can be darn sure they would
Lets just agree to take the, "All you have to do is add NOS" argument off the table because it BS, flawed and really has no place in any comparison between cars not featured in Hot Rod magazine......
Pretty impressive looking piece of kit and hats off to GM for producing it at an attractive price. Yet another option for car buyers is welcome by all. Will I cancel my 430S? No. Would I think about buying this car if I had a use for it? Yes.
Anyone who wanted JUST a track car doesn't need to spend $100k on a Corvette. There are really many great used car options that can be tuned superbly for the track. I read the Autoweek article. GM are positioning this as an all-around car, not just a track machine. They claim it will beat a Z-06 around a track but their pride is in the fact that is is a comfortable daily driver. In that case I pass on the Corvette and go with something else more elegant and interesting to me. If I wanted a a pure track car I would buy a nice used Porsche and strip out all of the extraneous weight, tune the suspension, fit decent brakes (even CCB's for around $15K), fit track rubber and have a blast. The Corvette will appeal to Corvette enthusiasts who will now have a better car than before to crow about, but I stand by my statement that a Ferrari (or even a Porsche) owner will not move to the Corvette segment, no matter how good the Vette is.
