Daytona 24 hr Race

Are you attending? Look fwd to meeting many of you there. Catch me as a guest of Grassroots Motorsports and if anyone need an extra wrench guy or gopher i'll gladly lend a hand..

 

We don't follow the Grand Am series - we'll be at Sebring for the ALMS race.

Carol

 

Thanks Carol, am sure you are talking the 'Imperial We' and not assuming you speak for the entire Ferrari Chat community. Sad that some people such as yourself keep splintering road racing within the United States with statements such as yours. Road racing within the United States needs all the support it can get imo.

Anyway, any more open-minded road racing fans on Ferrari Chat going to see the 24hr Daytona race? If so, let's meet up!

 

No snobbery in that statement, right Carol?

Never mind the fact that countless drivers from ALMS cross over to Grand Am Rolex. Does that mean you turn your nose up at those drivers, as well?

 

I really doubt it was intended to be a closed minded statement by Carole. I do not support Grand Am purely because the cars are so ugly. Sure its very competitive, sometimes watch it on TV, but not in person. There is no excuse for that kind of ugly. Sports cars should look good as well as run fast and be safe for the driver.

I used to go to the Daytona 24 annually, but now that NASCAR is trying to force its road racing series on fans using those abominations called sports cars, I would rather watch dog sled racing.

Please consider that road racing is splintered because of NASCAR's Grand Am series, that being the best reason not to support GrandAm. At least ALMS follows international rules so the cars can compete elsewhere, as well as European and Asian cars competing in North America. NASCAR wants to control road racing in the USA, just isn't going to happen. They should conform to ALMS standards. Make one series a closed car series, the other an open car series. Compete together at certain venues at the end of the year for a championship.

 

Wow, did not realize how intricate thing were, as i simply enjoy watching road racing at high levels (and participating via a 'lowly' F2000 car in SCCA). The Daytona 24 brings some impressive drivers to the event, including F1 and others. Those who watched last year's race surely remember Montoya doing when he does best during heated battle in the dark cover of night...

"And the meek shall inherent the earth." (sorry, listening to Rush 2112 right now and funny how that is exactly were i am in the song).

 

Steven, it's really no big deal, except on the fan-boi side. Friends race in both series and really don't care what they drive. They simply want to race.

 

The Frances are probably the best thing that happened to American racing. Their staff is populated by ex-racers, including their legal staff. The live racing and have done their absolute best to move it forward in the US. You just might see them managing professional motorcycle roadracing in this country. If not for them, we would never have moved from "Class C" racing to Superbike racing. Steve McLaughlin was instrumental in getting them to change the format of the Daytona 200 many years ago, and that change is still with us today.

Other big names in racing haven't been anywhere near as supportive. An example of what I'm talking about is Tony George and the IRL, which killed open wheel racing in this country. The average person wants to see cars (or bikes) competing, however certain track owners, team owners, and others have a different agenda, and they haven't totally sorted themselves out as of yet. It's neat to have two series for "sports cars" that road race. I don't know much about Burton Smith, but I do know that he's sunk a huge amount of money into racing, and those tracks that he's bought have been upgraded, and not just the amenities, but the tracks, frequently with safety in mind.

Art

 

I would agree with you about the Frances family's contribution to American motor sports. I would disagree with you that Tony George killed open wheeled racing in America. The prior series was run by team owners, no serious professional racing series in the world is run by team owners. All of them have a "czar" if you will. CART was floundering because of greedy team owners, like Penske, Ganassi, Patrick. The initial approach of the IRL made sense, not sure where it is today, other than it does provide very competitve racing second only to NASCAR.

 

Love that last sentence, as that is what matters to me... but then am sure at the upper/top levels there are financial and staffing and... Simply color me a fan, and perhaps a participant (at an extremely low level) who simply loves to 'enjoy the track' in a competitive way (and why HPDE days got boring). Hell, i'll take a night sleeping in my sparse CargoPro trailer at the track with a track day afterwards over a night all warn and comfy at some holiday resort.

The smell of burning race gas in the morning. It smells like.... victory.

So yes, perhaps my perspective is much different than those of you who are much more involved, and higher up, on the racing circuit. Hope to meetup with a few Fchatters in Daytona.

 

The nascarization of sports car racing in North America:

Second Chance (similar to NASCAR's lucky dog rule http://nascar.about.com/b/2006/07/31/lucky-dog-rule-explained.htm)

Grand-Am will be initiating the Second Chance (yet to be sponsored) rule wherein the highest placed lapped car at the time of the wave by at the end of a full course caution will be waved by the overall race leader and get a lap back. This will be used in both the Rolex Series and the KONI Challenge Series races.

http://www.grand-am.com/CONTENT/Docs/PDF/2007/Technical%20Bulletin_200703.pdf

 

Wow. That seems just crazy. The next thing that will happen, is a mandatory yellow with a 3 lap sprint to the finish. This is not what sports car racing should be. BTW, I will watch the race on TV. Any sports car racing (as few as they do show)on nascar tv is a treat to watch.



Darrell.

 

in fact the formula ford 2000 is actually about as pure as a race car will ever get!

steven, everyone in this post is a little bit right but no one is totally correct nor totally wrong. yes, road racing (and open wheel racing ) has suffered from being deluted at the pro level. i really would love to see grand am and irl just go away and allow for alms and champ car to be the proper roadracing sanctioning bodies. damn i miss the good old days on imsa and cart!

those daytona prototypes are turds! they are really tough to watch and are actually not even as fast as a proper gto or trans am car...what a lousy step back for the glorious sunbank 24!!

we do need to support road racing in the usa...just hard to see so much money going into grand am when it would go soooo far to help the purity of the alms series. it would really harken back to the camel gt days. oh well...

 

Thank you Ron! Like you, we sometimes watch it on TV but not in person. To me, there's a bit too much NASCARness in the bumping, etc. that takes place. Now this yellow flag stuff ...

Nevertheless, we'll watch the race on tv. I definitely will be cheering for the SAMAX Riley Pontiac for OVERALL - great driver line-up (Audi factory team) with Allan McNish, Lucas Luhr, Mike Rockenfeller and owner Henri Zogaib. We spent some time with Allan after the Laguna Seca race and he said he was working on something for Daytona but it was still up in the air depending on Dr. U. So this is it and what a team! Allan has raced in several Daytona 24's -> '98 second overall; first GT1 with Champion Porsche (most beautiful car); '99 seond overall in 333sp for Doyle/Risi; '00 &'01 retired due to engine in 333sp Risi; '05 retired due to engine in Howard Boss Crawford Pontiac. Hoping he gets that elusive win.

Carol

 

Lone entries from outside North America? - Two F430 Challenge cars from 'Mastercar'

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.racingworld.it%2Ffiagt%2Fstampa.php%3Fidtitolo%3D3960&langpair=it%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Thomas Biagi on the team - twice FIA GT Champion

http://www.fiagt.com/driverbio.php?countkey=13

shown here

http://www.theracesite.com/index.cfm?template=pa&form_pa_id=3367&form_photo_num=46

at Daytona testing this weekend:

http://www.theracesite.com/client_images/albums/3367_36.jpg

http://www.theracesite.com/client_images/albums/3367_44.jpg

http://www.theracesite.com/client_images/albums/3366_38.jpg

http://www.theracesite.com/client_images/albums/3366_44.jpg

 

I wish I could be there with the rest of my family. Obviously they will be there with the Koni Challenge. They are there right now for the test days.


On a side note... one of our cars just did Fastest lap in the ST class for the last session!! Apparently Speed came over and took a bunch of pictures with our driver...


I'm really not sure where all this animosity towards Grand-Am comes from... and frankly it's a shame how some people can be so negative towards a series that allows so many people to get in on the action.

If we want road racing to survive here in the US, then we need as much of it going as we can. You can't compare ALMS and Grand-Am to the European counterparts simply because the series just aren't established. I mean seriously, do you WANT to give Speed even fewer shows to air instead of Nascrap?

Claiming that Grand-Am is hurting the road-racing scene in the US is just silly.

 

If something like this is racing in Grand Am, then Grand Am must be crap!
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Because the 'split' of Grand-Am and ALMS, while not as damaging as IRL/Champ Car, doesn't help sports car racing in North America. The DP cars are close to spec cars per Marshall Pruett.

"It’s sad that a father and son can build a racer out of wood in their garage, but grown men with millions of dollars choose to regulate themselves into a corner where all they can do is buy a kit car to fight with other millionaires. Knowing that these millionaires likely did everything but follow the rules in order to make their millions and then choose to spend it in an arena where they have nothing but rules to follow is rather amusing, isn’t it?"

- http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/42035/

The split started with the revived United States Road Racing Championship which was replaced by the Can-Am Championship. The USRRC was replaced by Grand-Am. The split causes teams and drivers to choose one or the other (or both like Dyson Racing but they've pulled out of Grand-Am).

more on the USRRC at

http://wsrp.ic.cz/usrrc.html

original Can-Am Championship cars:

without slashes

http://www.u-l-t-i-m-a-t-ecarpage.com/canam/

The situation with sports car racing in North America by 1998:

(interview with Kudzu chassis)

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/PLM.htm

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/archive.html

Grand-Am moved into isolation with both DP and GT classes which is why next to zero teams outside North America compete in the Rolex 24 at Daytona. It used to be big. A better time (as far as quality of machines) in the 24 Hours of Daytona - 1992

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8cevP4dFbo

Plus, one can't just build an ugly DP. There is an approved list of DP manufacturers and one has to either be on that list or purchase a DP "license" from someone else and then modify that car. That is what Lola and Dallara did recently. It is just to make extra $$ as their engineering talents are not pushed to the limit.

"In mid March of 2004, I received word from Grand American that although the Rohr R01 plans were approved, Rohr Racing had been dropped from the list of approved constructors. I was told this was due to a lack of progress on completing the first car. This was a devastating blow to me, to Rohr Racing and to Gray Tiger Racing Inc. We had over 3000 hours and over $100,000 invested in the R01 Daytona Prototype cars and suddenly were no longer allowed to finish the cars and compete. I was dismayed at the fact that Grand American felt that the time and money that we spent was not enough to be considered a commitment by us to the Daytona Prototype concept."

- http://www.graytigerracing.com/latest_news.htm

http://www.rohrracing.com/prototype.htm

Yet Grand-Am allows Sabre to build an all-new DP.

http://www.theracesite.com/index.cfm?template=magazine&mag_id=12721

http://www.sabreracing.com/

Speed never aired reruns of either Grand-Am or ALMS races from 2007 during this winter so far. The Koni Challenge races aired once or twice in 2007 unlike in the past with several airings. They did air 1 hour highlights of the 6 hour Le Mans Series races from Spa, Monza, Silverstone, etc.

Allowing tube-frame GT cars in the same class as real GT cars is a joke.

http://www.motorsport.com/magazine/feature.asp?C=BlueFlag&D=2004-12-23

The Mastercar team only races at Daytona. Corsa Motorsports raced their F430 Challenge car at Miller Motorsports Park in 2006 and 2007, but plan to race their F430 GTC at least three years with Hankook tires in ALMS.

http://www.youtube.com/user/equiwest

http://www.hankooktireusa.com/press/press_press_view.asp?pid=208

http://www.americanlemans.com/drivers_and_teams/Team.aspx?ID=31

 

Spoken like a true fan-boi, pacific11.

 

That Ferrari will only be at Daytona in 2008.

There used to be a different class for tube-frame GT cars and now there isn't one.

 

Based on the timing for the session at 7:30 pm tonight, the Ferrari appears to be not extremely competitive. Finished 47th OA and 27th in GT with a time of 1:54.378, whereas, the first place GT had a time of 1:51.139 - TRG RX8. DP's timing thru 7th was pretty close - Jon Fogarty/Alex Gurney, et al were first with a 1:42.010 and Allan & Mike were 7th with 1:42.889. One of the green DP's has been lurking at the bottom of the DP pole in just about all practices.

Carol

 

That was Krohn Racing's new Pontiac Lola.

http://www.grand-am.com/News/Article.asp?ID=7871

Lola had to purchase a DP licence from Multimatic.

http://www.multiinc.com/index.shtml

from Lola's website:

Larry Holt - Vice President, Multimatic Inc

We were able to fully develop the Multimatic chassis under the present Grand-Am rules, but could go no further. I was always satisfied with the mechanical aspects of the car but the aerodynamic program was undoubtedly lacking and the new rules will now allow this deficiency to be addressed. However, due to other business commitments we have taken the decision to pass the torch to the new Proto-Auto LLC partnership to exploit this substantial opportunity. I am delighted that the combination of the worlds leading race car manufacture, Lola, and the top Grand-Am Rolex DP team, Krohn Racing, has chosen to take this on. We are looking forward to assisting with component supply and ultimately competing with the updated car in 2008.

PROTO-AUTO Q & A

1) Where will the new Lola cars be built?
The intention is that the manufacturing of majority of the components, and the final assembly of the cars will be carried out in North America.

2) The Multimatic chassis was developed within the provisions of the Grand-Am rules, how will Proto-Auto improve the cars performance?

Proto Auto has commisioned Lola cars to design the new bodywork permitted for 2008, and to look at improving the driver safety, which will
incorporate feedback from Krohn Racings on track experience. Lolas renowned technical facilities will also be maximized in preparation for the first testing of the car this fall.

 

That on-track experience should be interesting, they wrecked one of the cars in P2 and couldn't be repaired this weekend to run in the remainder of the sessions!

Carol

 

Interesting links P 11. The politics of auto racing. The example of the IRL certainly goes beyond open wheel.

 

Enjoythemusic,
I've been to Daytona the last three years in a row with my buds. I usually bring the 365 GTB/4 and the DB5 and park near the Grassroots compound. It's only 100 miles from home, so no excuse not to go if I can spare the time. Look for me there.
Oceans