430 Spider is already...um....

History has suggested to me at least that the exotic auto market is slow in the winter (seasonal issues as well as economic reasons as most big Wall Street bonuses are paid in Feb, Not year-end). Prices will get stronger in the Spring and in Feb/March.

Having said that, I agree with the above posts; current exotics should be bought to be enjoyed - they are depreciating assets, Period. Buy one and love driving it - the sooner you get it the more time you will have enjoying it - sit on the sidelines and, well, you are on the sidelines. Will any car be worth less in 3 months? - Generally Yes; will the enjoyment that will be lost by not having and driving it for those three months never be regained? Absolutely - Which is more important? There is nothing in my book like driving a Ferrari.

 

wow, 25% depreciation in exotic car prices in 6 months...thats quite a collapse in prices...would be some great prices out there...an 05 430 coupe for 150k$, 430 spider for 200k $ , etc....of course, it didnt take a genius to know that the housing market was overextended as was the housing credit market....as for predicting the future, your quess is as good as any...everyone knows that most markets have cycles, but knowing exactly when the markets when change direction is the tricky part...timing is everthing....one thing we do know is that mass produced exotic cars will depreciation is value overtime...its the rate of depreciation that is not known.....sorry for the rambling, but just got home from a new years eve party and the Etoh is just wearing off...happy new year everyone!!!!

 

Taking a look at the avalanche of used 360s sitting around, I'd agree with most that F430 prices are due to fall off a cliff this year. Whether that's significant to you depends on your bank balance, obviously.

Despite a bad economic year ahead, I think the vintage Ferraris are a separate discussion/market, and the classic Ferraris (Dino/Daytona/308/Boxer/328) are going to keep selling briskly, because they have some upside. 246s are poking through the $200K mark even amidst the gloom and doom, and there were 3800+ of them made, IIRC. If a buyer is concerned about his money, and must have a Ferrari, the sensible buys are the Boxer and 'glass 308s.

If a buyer just loves driving a 360/F430, more power to him.

 

are 05 spiders trading below their MSRP? if so by how much? how about 06?

for example, what would have the MSRP been on this car?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-FERRARI-430-SPIDER-DAYTONA-SEATS-SHIELDS-HI-FI_W0QQitemZ140192858023QQihZ004QQcategoryZ6212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

I'm sorry pal, that's just not true.

You don't have to be worth $25mm in order to legitimately afford a $200k car comfortably. You have to realize the number of people, as you mentioned, that are worth $25mm+ are FAR and FEW between. We're talking a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the population. Most who are buying these cars aren't worth nearly that amount. MAYBE 1 out of 100 $200k car buyers are actually worth such a large amount. For ones who are-- sure, they don't care about $50k; but those who aren't DO care, and there are plenty more who care than don't. You make it sound like everyone buying expensive cars are mega-rich-- it's FAR from true. Your demographic is completely off and so is your argument.

There are innumerable amounts of people who care about mindless loss of equity-- regardless how much money they've got. And I don't know what "NYC" has to do with anything, but wealthy people are wealthy regardless of where they live. Ignorant people are ignorant whether they are in SoCal or Maine-- it just doesn't matter where they are.

 

210K to 220K
Al

 

ok so thats not bad then, if the market being soft means a 3 yr car sells for MSRP or close to it, i think thats respectable.

 

i see where this conversation is going. Its prob not worth it but in short i just cant see how someone would spend 5 to 10% of their capital on a toy. So if you have $2M in the bank and ur trying to buy a 430, ur nuts in my book. Anyway, i hear your point, fair enough. The guys i know buying these cars do fit my profile more than yours, so its prob the demographics...and when i say NYC i mean the NYC/westchester/greenwich CT people.

 

As for someone that's in the market for a 360 I love hearing about price drops. But in reality I have not found anyone, or any dealers that's willing to discount their 360s at all!

For example:

99 Red/tan, F1, Standard seats, no grill, 11k miles, new clutch, all service records. One scratch on the side of the car. Asking $120k. I would think this would be more like a $110k car, obviously that offer was not good enough.

This one is in Ferrariads, 00 red/tan, manual, standard seats, grill, 24k miles, service records, not sure about clutch, asking $117k, with the some what higher miles and excluding the rims I was thinking this would be a $107k car. Seller wasn't interested.

02 yellow/black, F1, sports seats, grill, 14k miles, new clutch, all service. Almost perfect car. Asking $135k, offered $125k.

Now, please tell me am I way off my prices, and not being realistic?

 

i dont know the used market enought to comment, but i think alot what gets perceived to be the "the market" is derived from ebay. Ebay is certainly a component, but i dont believe its really indicitave of the entire marketplace and unfort because its so easy to access it does set the sentiment for alot of people. I think real world good deals are harder to come by.

 

I think you'll be amazed to learn that a good percentage of modern day Ferrari owners are less than 2 mil in net worth. And many of them are less than 35 years of age...

 

Ha, yeah. I'm just giving you a hard time and a new perspective.

And I absolutely agree with you-- using that much great equity on a car, given it's a big portion of one's net worth... it's crazy! Although, there are plenty of young single dudes with good salaries (Goldman...) and no monthly nut who can easily pay for such a car. They should be putting the money somewhere else, but that's their perogative.

 

It is winter. People tend not to have the urge to by convertibles and sports cars in winter areas when they cannot use them. This comes from my client Exclusive Motorcars (www.emcars.com). Despite this, they just sold 3 out of 4 of their 430 Ferraris (we are in Los Angeles) with the remaining one being a higher miles car.

Normally prices soften somewhat at the end of the year and the beginning of the next year as the new year of cars roll out, even if on a limited basis. I do agree that there are more 430's out there but it seems that the ones that are not selling are because they are priced for January 2007 rather than January 2008. Take a look at higher-end sales places like The Auto Gallery in Calabasas (www.laautogallery.com). Their prices are still strong.

 

As a "wealthy" person, I meet many who have money (20+ million up to owning Casino's and islands) because of God's good graces. Don't make the mistake of equating tax bracket with I.Q.

Also, many "look rich" leveraging their lives. They sleep in apartments to impress (whomever) on the weekends. The economy is suffering, a great deal of debt and a world that has not learned the lesson, that "ignoring history insures a repeat of history". Too many only think of "now" and not the "future" Anyone with an I.Q. over 5 saw the subprime problem coming. It would be fair if only affected those who wanted everything regardless of whether or not they earned it, but unfortunately it is not a limited phenomenon. As a direct result, besides the downsizing of major companies, many American financial institutions and real estate conglomerates are being purchased by oversees investors. At this rate, in 30 years or so, English will be America's 2nd or 3rd language. Best

 

Amen dude!
Happy new year to ya.

 

they said that 30 years ago too when the japanese were buying up NYC. As far as i can tell americans arent sending their kids to japanese school to learn the language. I do agree with the bulk of your post.

Maybe im naive, or just patriotic, but the combination of democracy and capitalism, as we know it, will be imitated but never replicated.

 

Word. HNY to you to man. Have a great 08.


Joe

 

that includes the used market right? what are the metrics for the crowd buying new ferraris from dealers?

the age makes sense, plenty of people in the world under 35 making 7 and 8 figures a year.

 

+1. Great post. If you have $25M+ you don't care about the prices of F430's if you really WANT one.

For those that are looking to their first F car and $250K is still a meaningful amount of money, the state of the "market" makes a big difference. Its not just the depreciation. Its paying $250K for a car that you could buy for $200K in a years time.

If you can wait 6 months and save $50K why not.

 

cuz u might be dead, seriously. low probability but everyday is a gift, as we all know.

 

Amen - Why wait? 6 months won't save you $50k of of an F430 --- $10-15k? Maybe, but Maybe not as Spring arrives and Summer is here when the market is strong.

IMHO, 6 months of unadulterated Ferrari driving pleasure is priceless

 

I am not a doom and gloomer... I have lived long enough to witness the prior hysteria as well. What I am talking about now is not an immediate, but incremental change. Watch the real estate market and corporate ownership, combined with immigration. Also society in general is no longer waiting for a gold watch and retirement , we are living in a world of immediate gratification. On the other hand, I wear out the eraser on my pencil before the lead, which has to say something. Best

 

"I wear out the eraser on my pencil before the lead, which has to say something."

- thats awesone, i love it.

 

What if I have 25k in the bank and nothing up my sleeve? Was it wrong to buy an F430?

Oh, and I financed it over 12 yrs too and charged the 100k down payment. Is that wrong? Am I bad at bankroll management?

 

It would only be the depreciation and cost of the car upkeep that matters. Although Ferraris are terrible investments there is still some value to the asset. If you had 2 million and you lost 20k total on a car over a year you really lost 1% of your assets. The real equation is how much the car costs to own, how much you have, how much you are adding to the asset, how long can you count on your income ect. That being said a new 430 probably cost more than 20k per year for the first few years.