No Traction Control And Racing In The Rain

Last season there were exciting races in the rain. Can't forget the end of the season with Alonso aquaplaning off the circuit at Fuji. Then there was Hamilton, Raikkonen, and Heikki's excellent drives in the rain.

But what happens in 2008 in the rain without traction control?

Apparently F1 drivers are asking themselves the same question and have David Coultard meeting with Charlie Whiting to determine race day policy when it rains as it did in 2007.

Other than postponing a race, what are the solutions? More SC laps? I would hate to see a 70 lap race where 40 laps were with the SC.

Ideas?

 

Race as they did in the past or stop until the rainfall decreases, not stops completely. Time for them to either race or not in my opinion. I have no problem with races being post-poned until better weather if need be. I like personally to see the cars perform at their maximum and only in the dry can this be achieved.

 

Since everyone has to race on the same track at the same time, IMO they should race whatever the conditions are. Perhaps though if the weather is dramitically different than qualifying they could be allowed to put rain tires on without penalty, but no other changes from qualifying setup. Maybe before the race they could have three or four sighting laps before lining up, and have the extra laps removed from race distance.

Some of the most exciting and unusual races have been because of rain. I remember the Jordan 1-2 (Belgium '98?) in the pouring rain with Ralf and Damon Hill. Watching Ralf fishtail out of the slow corners was incredible. Or Panis' victory at Monaco in '96, it was a race of survival.

Sometimes waiting for your opponents to slide off track is a perfectly viable race strategy...

 

They used to race in the rain before TC was invented.

 

Racing in the rain, without traction control would be a decent test of who the best driver is. When the car has traction, and the power can be put down on the ground, then the chassis, tires, and engine come into play, and the driver becomes a little less in that mix. When traction is reduced though, the importance of the driver again comes to the front. I like this idea.

Art

 

Indeed. Perhaps they could show the movie Grand Prix SPA footage at the drivers meeting?

Another wonderful example was that 2006 Goodwood Reunion where they ran the old 1.5 litre F1 cars in pretty solid rain in a demo race. Some of them apparantly forgot that it was just a demo -

Classic comment supposedly by Alain de Cadenet made to the queen mum: She asked about LeMans - what do you do if it starts to rain? He said - "Oh, we just immediately pull directly into the pits and put in a Frenchman".

 

Rain or shine they need to race that's it!

 

What don't all of the drivers just get x-box's and network all of them together and race online. That way they don't have to leave their trailer and will never have to get wet. Oh but you say who would buy tickets to that!

 

Would that be in wet then, they could sit outside with them in the RAIN...

IMO they should race till it proves impossible to do so.

Some of the best action last year was under wet conditions, It's crap standing watching in it but I do and have, it add's spice to the race, and teams/driver's have to go with there instinct's which tyres to choose and this all adds to the excitment.

Hell its risky but they are meant to be the best ,come rain or shine.

 

i hate that silly move by the FIA. i rather not watch a race like that.

these guys are paid millions to race in dangerous conditions. i think they should just go out there and race, but race with cautious.

 

They will have to learn something called throttle control. An alien concept to todays "mash and go" generation of drivers (with exceptions like Button and Kimi).

A race should only be postponed if it gets dangerous, and I mean really dangerous. Fuji to my mind wasn't particularly dangerous. Immensely difficult conditions but I don't think there was any real DANGER. Nurburgring was a difficult kettle of fish. That was dangerous and needed to be stopped.

I know its easy to say from our point of view but they do need to harden up a bit. Last year (maybe 06) there was an A1GP race where Team USA stayed out during a downpour on slicks tyres. While an A1GP car isn't as dependent on heat as an F1 car, the precedent is set.

 

Better men have raced in worse conditions for a lot less than these overpaid, whiny primadonnas. If Coulthard has a problem with no traction control then it is time for him to retire. It is not an issue of safety, it is an issue of testicular fortitude.

 

You know I read this on Autosport.com and I thought, so what? This argument makes no sense. Traction control has nothing to do with aquaplaning! Aquaplaning has to do with too much water on the track and the tires not being able to remove enough of it to maintain grip. Traction control has to do with limiting wheel spin from too much power being applied. If cars were spinning out under acceleration then, yea that's a traction (control) issue.

If anything traction control leads to drivers being put at greater risk in the wet than if they didn't have it. Why? Well with traction control drivers are able to accelerate earlier and harder than they'd be able to otherwise. This leads to higher terminal speed at the end of the straight and with that higher speed comes increased chance of injury if they were to hit a puddle and aquaplane off at say 180mph rather than 170mph or 165mph. With the higher speed also come increased braking distances.

If you want to address the aquaplaning you either need to get better rain tires or postpone the race until it's safe to drive with the tires on hand. Traction control has nothing to do with hitting a puddle and spinning off or sliding off because of lack of lateral grip.

 

Let em race, they are big boys hopefully they know how to drive in the rain.

 

I have no problem with taking off all the electronic dudas, but the tire rule is just dumb. Let them put on tires for the conditions. In other words, bring three or four sets. Rain, sort of rain, grooved and slicks. Of course the caveat is that what new will be developed to go into street cars ultimately?
Then there is the argument of ‘this is the top of the ladder for both machine and driver’. Let them develop anything they can dream up and see if it works. In other words, tell the FIA to bud out.
Frankly, I like the later best. The human body will be the ultimate limitation anyway. Ask any fighter jock!

 

Coultard is just the spokeman, it appears most of the drivers have indicated they are concerned about this. At the end of the day, I would agree with those of you that said let them race. These guys are being paid millions to supposedly be the best in the world.

Show me that's true. Put a wiper on you helmet visor if that helps, but stop with the BS. Have Bridgestone prepare rain tires with 2 inch deep grooves if that helps, but following a SC for lap after lap is ridiculous. This just confirms that NASCAR drivers have bigger testicles than F1 drivers.

 

Maybe just less brains? Eh Ricky Bobby!!

 

fully agreed.

they have become so protective these days.

 

Ermm... Coultard speaking in 2000:"But I am a pure racer. I want to change my own gears and I don't want computers to help prevent wheelspin."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/1054887.stm

 

And rightly so IMO. Would you like to go back to the days when F1 drivers were regularly dying in races?

 

Good point Ian, this is why I would IF I was a driver would always question the FIA when implementing there adhoc rulings.

Racing in the rain is risky, but I would not like to see it stopped, run later or races run under a saftey car for prolonged periods if possible.
I think it's fair to say also the cars are much safer now than back in the day.
BTW Happy New year!

 

Happy new year Steve.

I absolutely agree with you that races should run in rain, with or without traction control. Some posters, though, almost seemed to be suggesting that F1 drivers should be prepared to risk their lives by driving in any conditions and I think that's just wrong. What I don't like to see is racing when it's almost impossible for the drivers to see because of spray. I remember the time Michael Schumacher was hit from behind in almost zero visibility by DC. One or both drivers could be killed in accidents like that; in fact I seem to remember MS, no doubt in the heat of the moment, suggesting that DC had tried to kill him!

I think there might be a little question mark over night races for similar reasons, although I haven't read about any driver commenting on that. Time will tell.

 

+1

If they did it back then, why can't they do it now? It seems like we can't go 3 weeks before David Coulthard starts complaining about something again.

 

I think that they should race and allow set up changes to ride height, suspension and downforce.

The TC issue is real and presents different dangers that will be "driver" mistakes and I understand that the drivers want a certain level of safety and that is fair.

My concern is for the drivers that are weak in the rain seeing this as a solution to their own personal weakness. The top drivers are great wet or dry.

 

There are plenty of race series that don't use TC. I think the guys who are complaining are the guys who know they have the most to lose as a result of taking their electronic safety nets away. If they can't handle it, then they should go to DTM.