Roland's F40

Bravo Darth!

It's not about the car! The car is great. It's wonderful he built a fabulous racecar from a pile of smoldering rubble. It's wonderful he drove it everywhere. It wonderful that it looks like an F40LM. It's all just bloody wonderful.

The point, for all of those vehemently defending Roland, is that he did indefensible things. He lied about himself and his purported accomplishments and no amount of charm and charisma is enough to undo outright lies, especially where the lies induced others into business relationships with him based on those lies. No amount of shifting blame to the AW character who pops up will mitigate things that Roland said directly and posted directly. As Rob Lay pointed out, it is doubtful that AW had anything to do with filling out Roland's FChat profile.

The man is a proven liar and it brings into doubt anything he said regarding the infamous car, especially when he is trying to sell it. Once again no amount of backtracking will erase the claims he made regarding the LM'ness of the car. There was a huge thread on FChat devoted to clearing up that mess.
That is the point. Not the car. The deceit.

 

In his own words....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GR4TBeCuSU

 

At the end of the video...is that AW's old car with the yella wheels?

 

Alex My Friend

A few points. The car. It is what it is and it ain't what it ain't. There has been a lot of disclosure and FCHAT was a big part of that disclosure which is a very good thing. As for what the parts are many did come through WWOC and I think some were made by Micheletto as spares for BC's LM but Sal would know for sure and if any serious buyer wants to know I'll put them in touch.

As for Resurrected Race Cars there are MANY and what they are and are not runs a WIDE range. (Everyone realizes Roland's Car is not a Resurrected Race Car but a Special build on the remains of a burnt out street F 40). Look at the burnt out remains of this original GT 40. The second photo is the Resurrected car racing at a recent Le Mans Classic. The Burnt out remains photo of the Ford GT 40 make the morning after the fire photo of a car I'm fond of look positively pristine. Events decide for themselves what they will take. Roland's car was allowed on the Lawn at Cavallino, the Breadvan was not. That too is what it is.

The market, assuming full disclosure/information, is efficient in the long run and this lot at the upcoming auction near you will be interesting to follow as it touches on some of these issues.

http://www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.cfm?CarID=r188&SaleCode=AZ08

Original Ferrari's that were made 41 years ago, shown in a few major auto shows, tucked away in Ferrari's and Pininfarina's Museums, recently pried loose to their first owner, simply cleaned and soon setting forth into the world are few. I only know of one. It will be very interesting to see what people think about what an original Ferrari really looks like. She is very beautiful but she is also a touch crude. There is a bit of over spray and the heads of her screws don't line up.

Best!
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Well I must admit when I read this post it mades me wonder how well you know Roland. As for being qualified to make comments regarding this issue, there are some of us that might pass that test.

My F40 was the cover car on FORZA, and the magazine devoted 6 pages to my F40 (I invited Roland to come to the event with FORZA, Roland's F40 is in the background). I tracked my F40 from coast to coast (with Roland) including Canada when SPEED and Dream Car Garage did a special on my F40. It appeared on SPEED again when when they did a special on Crescent Classic (www.crescentclassic.com). Not saying this to self promote, but your post implys that only people jealous of Roland and his car have posted on here. I loved driving with Roland, he taught me alot.

I put 16,000 miles on my F40 in 5 years, so I think I enjoyed my F40, but I do not know if that makes me "cool". I never tried to be cool, not sure anyone can be "cool" after age 30.

I think you are the one that might be missing the point, it is not a question of if its a nice car, it is, the question has always been if the car is an LM or built to LM specs as represented by Roland numerous times, the answer is no, it is not an LM nor did they use Michelotto blue prints. (The truth is real LM parts ARE available even today, you just would not believe the prices). I have always said the truth is more interesting than the fiction written about this car. I know Roland VERY well, I like him alot, but this story will never go away as long as the car is continued to be represented as an LM or built to LM specs, neither of which is accurate.

Anything else is not important, but there are people on here qualified to give an opinion, but based on your standards, I am not sure if you are even one of them.

I do agree that one of the biggest issues surrounding this car is people that really have no direct knowledge giving opinions based on 2nd hand information. While it is clear to those of us that actually know the truth, I understand where the confusion comes from. And is the car an F40? Yes it is an F40, modified, but an F40.

Chris Parr

 

Un-f*cking-beleivable thread...

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

+1...

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

I kinda like a few stories... a stock F40 is better to look at than drive. The brakes on a F40 are just terrible, so that is the first thing to be put on the shelf! seat belts have to be replaced etc. The F40 market will cool down, prices will retreat, this is the third F40 price trend, its just a matter of time.

 

This is where I draw the line my friend! There is nothing "diningenuous about me or my description of the car. It is an F40 even if Rob disagrees. F40 frame, F40 engine makes the car an F40, period!
There was no "grudging agreement" to change the title description. The majority felt it should be changed and based on your (Fchat) suggestions to the better name, it was changed. This decision rested with Roland not with myself, I do not own this car.

Again for those that cannot read properly:
The history of this car is very well documented and very well written about. A long insight article was published in FORZA a few years ago that described the long journey this car took and the rebuilt of this car. Who is trying to hide anything? It mentioned the burned donor and the switched engine and the new turbos etc. I know it is so much easier for some of you to sit behind a keyboard and bash someone elses work. It takes a lot more than hearsay to become an "expert" in order to pass judgement. To call me disingenuous is a slap in the face that I am certainly not willing to take from you, someone that has absolutely no idea what he is talking about when it comes to this car.

 

"The history of this car is very well documented and very well written about. A long insight article was published in FORZA a few years ago that described the long journey this car took and the rebuilt of this car. Who is trying to hide anything? It mentioned the burned donor and the switched engine and the new turbos etc."

All true. Not to mention the extensive FCHAT discussion.

Best

 

and there goes the "expert" yet again.
Frame-F40
engine-F40

that does make a car an F40. You may not like it, but that simply is what it is!

 

and your "expert" opinion would be based on what facts?
This means that there are lots of classic Ferraris out there that are in fact not Ferraris after all.

 

Almost.... The article in Forza is not totally accurate as it states that the car was built using michelotto blue prints which, according to my sources, is not accurate. The chassis was under construction prior to Roland purchasing the car. I have a letter from the person who started building this car that states no Michelotto blue prints were used during construction.

This is very different from 0846 where Jim was totally honest about every aspect of its rebuild. I totally believe that 0846 is 0846 because of the integrity of its rebuild and its owner. The problem on this F40 is that certain areas are suspect because the owner continues with the LM references....

I agree with Martin, it is an F40. And it is a nice car...

I would never question Martin's integrity, he has an excellent reputation and he has earned it. If the description of this car no longer included the term LM, it would be sold by now....

I think it would be more fun to discuss what it is rather than what it is not....

Let me put it this way, I would buy this F40 (at the right price), call it an F40 and track the hell out of it and have a great time!

 

Finally you make it clear. All your ramblings about the car are all BS. You simply want to take another stab at the man who built it.

Bravo.... Maybe you should open a thread called "Roland" instead of posting in "Roland's F40" thread, giving expert opinions whereas you clearly lack the expertise.

 

Chris:
I have talked by now to probably 80% of the mechanics involved in the built of this car. Although I met Dave Helms on occassions I never talked to him about the car specifically so I don't know his comments on this particular subject. I was told on one occassion that there were in fact "blue prints" that were used. Giving, I am not sure if they were Michelotto blue prints. Nevertheless, original LM parts were used to make molds. That is another fact. Of course the ones made from these molds are not original but they were crafted off the original.

It is kind of like saying my 360Challenge GT is not a GT car. No it is not. It is not a GT Michelotto bumper but one made off a Michelotto GT bumper. We got that bumper sanctioned by GrandAm but that does not make my car a 360 GrandAm GT car. I still call it a 360Challenge GT because of the Gt wing and bumper. Not trying to misrepresent but get the occassional guy that simply does not get it and thinks he found the worlds best priced 360GT

 

Martin, I believe you are correct that some LM body parts were used to make molds for the body panels on Roland's F40. I tried to buy a hood from the guy who made Roland's hood, as you know I always wanted an LM hood!

The blue prints were not from Michelotto but it was very well done....

Its nice car Martin, we have discussed this many many times and you know I have alot of respect for you, I just think the entire "LM" references are unnecessary and distract from the excellent work Roland did to bring this car back to life... I think it will be an anchor on this car until all LM references are removed, just my thoughts...

 

To Martin and everybody else who are pissing and moaning here. The issue has always been about the dishonesty regarding the car, not the car itself. As Jim points out there are precious few old race cars that are a lot different than their original configuration.

This however was never a race car, rather a project car, but it was used as a central piece in some of Roland's descriptions of himself and what he was selling. It is the dishonesty in a public environment, where people were misled.
Again - It is not about the car, although I personally don't consider it to be an F40 in the same way that a Factory built F40 is an F40. It is based on F40 mechanicals and an F40 chassis, but everything else about is not F40 at all, but it is what it is and because the web is the most efficient disseminator of information, everything there is to be known about the car is known. And a lot of that is very different from what Roland was telling the world. That remains the point here. The car is ancillary to this discussion simply because it was part of what Roland was misrepresenting originally.

I have no personal beef here with anyone, just an interest in the truth.. This is FChat, the Ferrari Community, not FChat the Ferrari Fables

 

So youre suggesting that a person in the F40 market right now is better off waiting?

I just want to make sure I understand you correctly...

Im not sure if Id use a 13,100-mile car to plot a market trend, but thats me In fact I saw that particular car's sale as a sign of strong values...

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

ditto....

 

Joe, I truly respect your thoughts on this, but twice before F40's have been in this price range and dropped. that being said, perhaps it is more realistic to think that the recent price increases will level off and that the majority of appreciation has already taken place. IMHO, F40's are just not that rare at 1,311 cars to support significantly higher prices.

Now that I have said that, it will come back and haunt me for the rest of my life!

I am the first to admit I did not expect the prices on F40's to go $100,000 over the last 12 months... Joe, what are your thoughts?

 

Im just here to learn from my fellow F-Chatters

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

lol you must be running for office!

smart answer!

 

I did learn one useful thing from another F-Chatter a short while ago: He stated in writing in the Ferrari Supercar section that F40s would be $1 million in 5 years. We are all basing our actions in anticipation of same and therefore we are banking on it. Would you like to see the post?

Joe
www.joesackey.com

 

Five years from now 1 million $'s may not be worth quite what it is today...

 

Dear Comrade Napolis,

It's very clear to me that Joe Sackey is quite fully aware of the direction in which F-40's are heading. He does after all own both a US F-40 and a more recently acquired English Lightweight F-40. Joe appears to be an inordinately shrewd gentleman and therefore I cannot imagine that he would have made the second acquisition in the knowledge that the market is likely to head south anytime soon.

With kind regards,

512 Tea Are