Could this 365 be worth $70k++???

I showed the interior pictures of this car to my 5 year-old the first time it was on ebay. He said "It looks like a bear, a cat, and a racoon have been living in it."

 

I was watching the RUSSO auction a couple of days ago on satellite. A similar car, with a recent $100,000 restoration, grade 2+, barely hit $80,000 from what I recall. The dino's sold in the $180,000 range.

So, if a near perfect example sold for $80,000...this one should be worth WAY LESS.

But I posted a similar thread about a carb 308 at forzamotorsports. If a great 308 is $35,000-$40,000. How is a rusted car with no major $25,000. In my eyes, its a $17,000 car. Of course folks can ask what they please. I never put in an offer on the car, because I suspect it would be rejected...but who knows...

Offer what you think it is worth....

PS. that looks like 115,000 mile car, or perhaps 215,000. No way in hell that 15,000 miles....

 

I don't know what the story is with the Russo 365, but in this market I believe a mint Queen should pull $130k to $140k.

As to the car above, it clearly needs everything, and the most expensive stuff is buried. the PPI should be an interesting read. Makes you wonder what "turn key" means??

 

I agree, unless the 15k miles were in the Baja 1000, no underside of a car with 15,000 miles is going to look that beaten up...

Likey rode hard and put up wet. The underside of my winter beater car looks better than that, and it has more thatn 100k miles on it.

 

I've moved up a 15-plus year ownership bracket, and have lost touch with pre-1970 market values, but your opinion on price sounds realistic. Another $50K spent on this car and you'd be up to decent driver standard, assuming engine-drivetrain-body are all now basically OK.

 

The editor of SCM was at the auction and made the typical comment that a 4 seat ferrari will never be collectible. I believe his guess was the car was worth $100,000, max.

The moral of the story...NEVER EVER restore a car . If you buy a beater, repair and drive, or improve upon as a rolling restoration. If you restore it, you really are doing the next guy a huge favor. Unless, you get seriously lucky....

 

Restore cars if that's what you do for enjoyment.......for cars under a few $100K, buy the best one you can afford like I just did.

 

Exactly what I did! Not exactly a step down depending upon whatever triggers your lizard "car nut" brain to reach for the checkbook.

The E-type was a very disruptive car in 1961.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137362733&postcount=11

 

I'll be the contrarian. If, and it's a big if, it is in fact mechanically okay, I think it's worth it. At least, worth it if you are willing to fix the seats and keep it as a reasonable driver. If you want to end up with a perfect one, I'd look elsewhere.

None of these cars makes much sense as a restoration candidate. 2+2s never have and probably never will.

Of course, the market will provide the real answer!

 

There's big difference between restoration and reconditioning.

I paid $32K for my basically clean and solid '64 330 2+2, and spent another $32K or so on reconditioning costs, with the end result being a very good looking and mechanically-outstanding driver...then crunch . A total restoration of the same car would have cost $100K, assuming no engine or trans rebuild.

One could do the same thing with the 365 2+2 that BT has brought to our attention. Going on my past experience: assuming a sound engine/drivetrain, minimal rust in body/chassis, and factoring in a complete new leather interior, I'd say $50K would suffice for reconditioning.

Guessing a current market value of $90K to $110K for a decent-to-nice-driver 365, and $135K for a freshly-restored example, the dealer is asking $25K more than the car is worth for reconditioning, $50K+ more than worth for restoration.

It's a project I'd take on given the space and spare cash, as is the 330 2+2 on M. Sheehan's website. I talked to him about it in late november and he said the owner would take $70K, but is not willing to spend what's required to get the car up and running....I'm guessing about $2K if info about it is accurate.
I think $25K would get this car in the decent-to-nice driver category.

Regarding E Jags: I loved them as a teenager and young man, but they don't ring bells anymore. The only other vintage sports car I considered after receiving the insurance check for the 330 was a '65 or '66 smallblock Vette, but I can only do one special car at a time, and the whole Ferrari culture is now where it's at for me automotively.

 

The math on project cars, at least any where the finished product is worth less than $500k, almost NEVER makes sense. Given that, I'd say this car is priced about right.

 

This car's condition was so appalling in context of the seller's claim that it needs a "light" restoration that I actually wrote the seller a snide email on the ebay page (I then figured that you guys HAD to be talking about the car here on FChat, and sure enough...). It looks like it needs EVERYTHING. The first paint job on a 365 that makes mine look good in comparison (at least mine's still the original paint - this car looks like it was painted at a Mommy & Me class).

So just like the days of $15K driver 308s, and $25K 330's (and this was only a few years ago. I won't bring up the Venice, CA car lot that had two Dinos for sale, one for $18K, the other for $23K back in 1986-ish - but we ALL have those stories), I think the days of $40-$50K 365's is over, no matter what the condition. These cars - and also the 330's - have shot up pretty high for both decent drivers and the restored versions. Unless a seller of a car in rough condition is desperate, they'll just hold onto it. It's a tipping point/critical mass/price barrier (or some other inscrutible economic term) thing. Even if the math (purchase + restoration costs) doesn't add up for a buyer. There are always buyers out there who want to get a specific car, but can't swing the cost of the car in great condition - but they can swing the cost of one in OK condition. And they can afford to put "X" amount of money into it each year, so eventually they'll have a car in great condition. It's easy to talk yourself into this logic if you REALLY want a specific car, even though from a financial and headache standpoint it makes more sense to buy the "best" car (condition-wise) you can for the money you have. But "sense" has little to do with these types of decisions sometimes - when we fall in love, we can talk ourselves into anything (and believe me, a "fixer" woman is a lot worse than than a "fixer" car!).

And I tell you, I've always liked Sports Car Market, but Keith Martin and that other guy said some astonishingly dumb-ass things on those RM auction shows - really suprised me. Also kind of ironic as the RM Monterey auction became to THE place to sell a 365 ever since Scott Oshery paid something like $170K for one back in '04 (I think) and over the next two years at that same auction, other 365s sold for similar amounts. Now these were all VERY good cars, but even Scott's car still required a fair amount of additional investment (he wanted a perfect, award winning car and wasn't shy about paying for it). So the soft sale on the red 365 at last year's RM may be an indication of a slight down-turn for the 365 (there was another red one at the Bonhams auction and another red one at the Christie's auction that were bid up to a similar price - can't remember if they sold or not. All three cars were in similar condition, I beleive).

But for Martin to say that 4-seater Ferraris will never become true collectibles is absurd. Remember, the 246 Dino was the biggest red-headed step child of the whole brand from when they were new all the way to about 1989 - and now look at them. Look at all the 2-seater 12-cylinder models - nowhere but up-up-up. A couple of which (Daytonas, Lussos, 275s) literally doubled in value between 05 and 06. It seems like nothing more than common sense indicates that 365 and 330 2+2 models will be worth a lot of dough when the cheapest 2-seater front-engined 12 costs $500K - and we're not too far away from that point.

But then again, let's not forget why we originally bought them and why we love them - TO DRIVE!!!

 

ITS a PARTS CAR!

 

Now what parts are in the condition of being reused, thats another matter.

 

I guess that would really make me wonder about his credentials.

 

Will this car be overpriced this time next year?

 

Yes to someone who just wants to reskin the seats, doors, new carpet and $10K for other stuff and have a driver, praying that no big bills hit.

No, not for my money. I'm not that guy.