Would You Give Up the V12s for More Powerful Eco Friendly Ferraris? "Yeah, its a V8"

With Ferrari becoming increasingly eco-friendly, the V12s may be on the choping-block for models in the near future. Supercharging and the V8 engine have proven to be quite powerful. We have seen that a Novitec twin supercharged F430 can our drag an Enzo and that running on E85, an F430 Spyder gets 10 more hp... Formula 1 have tossed them out. Should road cars let go of this locomotive-sized boiler in exchange for a tighter more powerful engine?

What now?





Best,
Jon

 

Anyone looking for the video concerning the F430 supercharged vs. Enzo is located here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG26PpqGToY

Back on topic,

Seeing the F40's V8 engine rip through the crowd and come out on top, I would have no problem seeing more V8 supercars in the lineup, especially turbocharged, which definitely adds a huge boost. One thing that I do not exactly prefer about these new supercars is the fact that they will be considered "eco-friendly" and that may cause a lack in power. I'm sure everyone understands the issues and countless problems about the enviroment, but the fact that there are so few Ferrari owners on this planet, they should not be pushed towards making an eco-friendly car. If that is their desire, then they should go ahead, but let Chevy, who makes more cars in a week than Ferrari does in a year choose the eco-friendly route.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't notice the poll! My choice would be "Ferrari will always be the best of the best no matter what engines they use." because honestly, it's true. Ferrari's will always be top dog, no matter what type of engine they use.

A very small portion of my thoughts

Andy

 

I don't understand. The V12s have been tiny in the past. There's no association between displacement and cylinder design.

 

+1 they also showed a biofuel 430 Spider today at Detroit.

 

But F1 only use V8's because it is mandated - when unrestricted Ferrari chose the V10 configuration as offering the best balance of power vs size.

+1 - think back to the 1.5L supercharged V16 developed by BRM!


Power is related to displacement not number of cylinders. Supercharging - whether turbo or mechanical - is simply a method of increasing effective displacement. Efficiency on the other hand is more complex! The most fuel efficient cars are not turbo charged ones!

 

I highly doubt the V12 engine will be gone for good if they steer away from it. They're just great engines, and Ferrari really knows how to build a V12 car that can be used daily. I wish Ferrari would build a small displacement V12 with a 12,000rpm or higher redline and put it in a totally new design that is about the size of a Lotus Elise.

Jim

 

The technology exists to make almost any internal combustion "engine eco freindly" (relatively, or vastly improved from current standards)...companies simply need an incentive to do it.

I was talking to a guy the other day who had read an article on fuel cell/hydrogen powered cars.

He said that basic point of the article was if (globally) we'd like an alternative fuel technology perfected, we should mandate it to any/all racing sereies..NASCAR, CART, F-1 etc (I know that CART has run ethanol for years). Anyway, given the learning curve, competition and $ involved, some of these techonlogies would be perfected in no time and applicable for real world applications.

 

I'd buy one!!!

 

Agree. 1.5 litre in many successful early road racers. A 3 litre like the classic 250 would not be out of place with today's engine management and other technology.

And disagree with anybody that starts up on cylinder friction, packaging, etc. (a V8 is that much better?) They are supposed to be high-end sports cars and thus an engine optimized for smoothness, breathing ability, and overall torque/rpm performance is well in line with the purpose.

BTW, I do not like hunting rifles with the stock made of poly-urethane, hydrogenated animal fat in the place of butter, Corfam shoes (if you can remember that sweaty fiasco), water cooled Porsches, rear-wheel-drive Cord replicas, or front-wheel-drive Cadillacs.

I guess you can see where I am going with this - VROOOOM.

 

I don't want to give up anything, unless forced to. In the interest of technical innovation, I would not want to see any technology eliminated from consideration. And, I always like seeing Ferrari get back to it's historic roots, IE, Naturally Aspirated V12. But my next Ferrari is going to be a 348TS!

 

Yes, but that was a V8. Im not saying it can't be done with a V12, though I would like to see it.

We have seen from Koenigsegg that...what is it, 800 something or 1000 horse power can come form their V8s after using bio-fuel?

It's on the horizon, I think. It doesnt seem right that Ferrari maintain a V12 program when cars like the 430, only when supercharged can out-grag and Enzo and Koenigsegg can do 250 with an 8. Im not saying I don't like the 12s, though it would indeed make for a smaller, lighter package...




Best,
Jon

 

Anyone who calls the Crown Jewel of of European Motoring a 'locomotive-sized boiler' to appease the granola-eating, Birkenstock-wearing, tree-hugging fat-azzed, smelly, non-shaving backpack-tramping eco-cultists should be thrown under a Hydrogen-powered bus and processed into grease for the lubrication of Ferrari Flat-12 engines.

And any youngster advocating turbocharging technology obviously has not paid to have an F-40 serviced out of his own wallet lately...there's a reason Ferrari left that high-strung technology behind in the 1980s....

Ferrari is just fine as it is, thank you.....why the urge to re-engineer a car that was/is NEVER intended to be a daily-driver automobile in the first place? Have you not seen the 10 MILLION Minivans/SUVs clogging the arteries of America??? The current fuel efficiency/hydrocarbon emissions of an automobile that 'might' see 3,000 miles a year is of no one's concern, including anyone who claims to be an environmentalist.....

 

I sort of doubt F will stop building V12s

bcus if Audi can build a V12 diesel R8 & a Q7 and F stops then F would be surrendering to Audi/Lambo and I cant see that happening

Also what about a V12 diesel hybrid, how cool would that be

 

As long as Ferrari wins races and makes real sports cars, I'd be glad to see them be more eco-friendly. OTOH, given the relatively tiny number of Ferraris in the world, I'm more worried about weed whackers and leaf blowers.

V12s haven't been the glamour Ferraris since the Daytona era, so maybe the answer is that we've already given them up. The two-year wait is for the F430 Scuderia, not the 612.

 

But arguably, (sales wait or not) the Enzo-FXX and the 599 are more glamourous...(notice I politely did not comment on the 612).

I think that Ferrari simply has to have a 12 in the lineup just because of who they are.

 

I think forced induction (twin turbochared) V8's will be the wave of the future, again.


I like both V8 and V12's. I wouldn't want to loose the V12's in the GT cars, but I think a V8 like I mentioned above might suit the sports cars better due to less weight and a more compact size.

 

I removed the silly little v8 they installed in my car and am busy making a v12 fit. There are a lot of advantages to a larger displacement engine and more cylinders.....scr*w eco-friendly, it's a toy.

For daily driving though, I keep finding myself looking at fiat 500s on ebay.....I wish there were a modern equivalent, I would buy one.

 

We went through the same type of down-sizing back in the late 70's, then went back to bigger engines in the 90's. It's a cycle we are doomed to repeat as long as gas prices go up and down. I'm in favor of keeping the V-12's.

 

This is a different situation. That was fuels avalibility, this is EPA MPG standards.

 

Ferrari first sports racing effort - 1947 (166 IIRC) Inter...

Engine - 60 degree oversquare V12, 1.5 litres. Three dual-throat Weber carbs specially made for this engine. Interestingly, the valve springs were "pincer type", not the familiar coils.

Engine made about 74 claimed H.P. Top speed claimed to be maybe 170-180 kph. No attempt at emissions control.

Car produced fuel mileage of about 12.5 litres per 100 kilometers.

Think we could do a little better today, keeping the 1.5 litres and the twelve cylinders?

 

exactly, Audi has a new V12 DIESEL in its newer R8 and Q7

I think matching a V12 diesel w hybrid power could extend the life of supercars well into the 21sr C

 

I think it's fine how it is now, have V12s in some cars but still keep the V8 line

 

Me too. I post this every time it comes up, but here is R & T Road Test summary, Jan 2007..."our test fuel economy"

Enzo - 13.3
F430 Spider - 11.6
612 Scaglietti - 9.4

My Testarossa is usually close to the F430, and I check and log it on every tank.

12 vs. 8, not much real difference if they are about the same size, weight, and performance.

 

i say keep em as the crown jewl plus f/i engines are not as reliable

 

THIS is the golden age for sports cars. Let's enjoy it while we can.