Why are TR prices so low?

i didn't mean same period cars...when i bought my TR in 2003,thank god i sold it and bought a Boxer this past year,there was a dino in show room for the same price...look what happen to the dinos.the Boxers were also same price as the TR at that time...ditto........

 

I hear ya!

The 512 TR brings me back to my teen years when I couldn't afford anything. This was my dream car I thought I would never own. (Never thought I would have a Lmaborghini Diablo and a 512 TR in the same garage either nor did I ever think I was going to be able to do my own work on them too.) So for me it's about styling and the big flat 12. I love the way the car looks and runs. I really don't think too much about resale value because I won't sell unless I have no choice. I will drive home at times thinking about the cars I have and I almost have to pinch myself to make sure I am not dreaming.

 

+2
my kind of motorhead!

 

uhm....you disagree!

 

This is all very interesting human nature. I have been a design engineer for over 35 years and have sat in design reviews that obviously few here could sit through. You have to leave your ego at the door and listen to your peers review your design and pick it apart. Sounds cruel huh, it is totally necessary to produce the best product you can. There is a saying in the engineering world which is 'kill the engineer'. That is so production can start manufacturing the design, cause otherwise the engineer would never be satisfied. All the comments about don't do this and don't do that are defeatist in nature. Accept this and accept that, or you shouldn't be doing this. BullsH*T. The design should stand on its on or it should be modified. If you choose to accept lesser then fine, that's your call. Those who can see the difference and have a desire to change it should be allowed their space. Anyone here who thinks the design engineer who was on this project (Testarossa) wouldn't make change with what he knows now is delusional.

John

 

anybody have a line on a beat-up TR? Something with higher milage and even a dent or ?. Shot interior is of no concern. I was dealing on one a just last week, but the dude just won't come down to a reasonable price. The car basicly needs to have a good engine and gearbox. As long as it runs and drives, that my only stipulation. Engine will be coming out anyway for belts and a new diff.

Let me know by PM.

 

This thread is about why the finished product (the TR), is so far, underappreciated.
Not about the design process of it back in the gold-chain days. It was a fine design back then.
Besides, someone with 35 years of American design experience would be suicidal in an Italian designing casino.

 

Interesting reading all the comments about the TR. I for one am glad the cars value is greatly depressed, it will put a highly regarded Super car of yesteryear within my reach. I still remember like it was yesterday over 20 years ago when I was walking to our car from a bar in Montreal Quebec and happened on my first Ferrari 308. The car was black and the guy was warming it up. It was drawing girls to it like a magnet. Those cars might as well have been a million dollars back then as I thought I would never be able to afford one...Ya a newer vette might be more comfortable and a much better car, but it is only a corvette...Ferrari's just have something special about them that still leaves me in awe. The body on the TR is dated, but I'm a sucker for a V12 and I can't remember the last time I saw one on the road here in Toronto. I would kill for a Countach but I doubt you will see them selling in the $50k range anytime soon. I think the ratio of the TR's value to maintenance cost is at a place where at this point only the real enthusiasts with more than average cash will buy one and most will probably do their own work, I know I will be. Too bad it will be a few years before I can buy one. I hope the value stays low for a while....

 

The Testarossa is certainly a car with a future classic status. The design was extremely advanced in a way only Pininfarina could master. Details such as the stakes at the side are far more detailed than many make out. Pininfarina developed them with varying thickness for aerodynamics. The Testarossa has an engineering beauty which is more than skin deep. The engine is gorgeous to look at and the sound is certainly one of the nicest around.

I was recently in conversation with a business contact about Ferraris being shipped back to Europe from the States at knock-down prices.. he mentioned that a Testarossa arrived at the docks in Rotterdam for 12k Euro. That is an insanely low price for such a special car.

The reason why the Testarossa has a low value at the moment is probably down to three things
1. It does not get the general vote for being "beautiful", which the Dino 246 certainly is. The Testarossa has no sexy voluptuous curves (which are timeless), it is a very sharp and complicated design.
2. As it does not fit the current general taste, and because so many were produced, there are too many cars on the market for the limited few who really value the cars looks. As a result the demand is not there to drive the prices up.
3. Due to the relatively low value it perhaps comes across as being a bit "obvious".

There is also the disadvantage that the Testarossa is more expensive to maintain than the V8s, however with a real thoroughbred this should not reflect on the cars value.

I think if anything the TV series Miami Vice has a negative effect on the cars image today, not to mention those replicas based on Pontiac Fieros. The TV show is still aired quite frequently in Europe and the style is a bit of a laughing matter.

 

I don't buy the "outdated" body. What makes a "dated" body style? Some like the curves and how wide the TR sits and some think it's an old design. Me personally..all the new "dated" cars all look the same to me. They all look like jelly bean shaped cars with lights on them. All the newer ferrari's look the same to me and the same with the Lamborghini's. Now rewind 14 or more years and your don't have that problem. The TR has a timeless design. Give me a break when you say it looks dated...lame.

 

I agree.
The TR looks "timeless" in a sort of Deloren, back to the future way.

 

Well you must not have read all the threads that has lead us here. Once again, a good engineer or designer would have researched the subject well enough to apply a comment that was well thought out considering past information and future concerns. The design and it's short comings are directly associated with the value of the car. This is not the only thing that relates to it's inherent value, but it is one. I merely replied to certain comments made along the way.

John

 

I also personally like the TR - for me it is a masterpiece and will remain as strong as it ever was. I'm a designer with a good schooling in art and design (the best according to most press) so I'm always analysing. I have a soft spot for the Testarossa.. as a kid it was my dream car. To this day I subconciously use it in my designs - the combination of sharp edges and controlled radii. At the moment I'm designing a luxury powerboat and looking at the styling.. there is a bit of Testarossa in there.

Which is why I comment in this thread.

However the general perception is that the TR styling is "dated" - something which unfortunately cannot be changed easily.

 

Oh no,
I just stick to the point of the thread and not past digressive information.
The market looks at the finished product and it's short commings, with no sympathy for the designers.

 

A single minded view has been the down fall of many a design. And the market for the TR's are obviously depressed, but if this is your car, who cares.

John

 

As was stated by a friend who has a new CO6 Vette."Kerry, we have been now fiddling with the rear hood release(s) for almost 2 hours on this Testarorossa of yours. It's been only 2 weeks since you paid 50K for this 18 year old car........yes, it is stunning and is a legend........ but for Christ's sake you could have owned a new Vette with a warranty!"

My reply....." Bobby I have only 2 responses to your nagging.........First, in 5 years you will own a used Chevy, while I on the other hand will own a Ferrari................Secondly, Please go upstairs and get us a couple of beers.

Two minutes later Bob returned with 2 beers and helped me complete the adjustment of the rear deck lid. And may I say he has never brought up the subject again and is currently seeking a TR for his own enjoyment.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as not seeing the very "plentiful production run" of Testarossa's on the road around Toronto...................Rare to be seen anywhere in my experience.............
I travel coast to coast, 45 weeks out of the year, via the highways and biways of the US and CANADA..........I have seen 1 TR on the road near Boston last year..........that's 1 in 5 years on the road.....360's/308's/328's/599's/40's Lambos & Astons, I see them every couple of weeks.........BUT..........Then again................................I also live in a town of 1200 people in upstate NY..........There are 3 other TR's within one mile of my home...............That makes the ratio for TR ownership in my little hamlet of doublewides..... 1 in every 300 people owns a TR...............I have never seen, in 10 years, 1 of these other TR's on the road........yes, they exsist.....in garages, I have seen them by appointment...........So on one hand they are quite rare to see out and about, which to me strikes down the "common place" arguement, BUT there are 4 Tr's in a 1 mile radius of my home in upstate NY........What the f*ck!..............................

My point.................I have no idea what my point is/was..........I just started rambling and this is what the result was.................Trust me I did have a point 20 minutes ago......but now?!?!^^^^

Next....................Kerry

(^^^^)Could be because I have been retrieving my Bud Light bottles from a plastic hotel laundry bag, which I suspended outside my hotel window, on the 25th floor of my hotel on E. Wacker Drive in Chicago, where it's 0* Farenhiet, with a chill factor of 25 below this evening, Oh the humanity!

Kerry

 

I agree with your first sentence, though I doubt any Ferrari falls into that category.
Your second sentence is being addressed in this thread by those who "care" in reply to the initial query.

But I agree with your sentiments. Hence, my comment above about the Zimmers. (That's an obscure make of car.)
I'm glad TRs are reasonable these days so that more people can enjoy the 12 cylinder Ferrari experience.

 

I'm not sure what your point is, but I will say this. I don't have a problem with the depressed price of TR's because I didn't buy it as an investment. I bought it to have fun with, which is the same reason I buy all my cars (well except for work vehicles). Fun to me is fixing and modifying apparent design limitations, failures, and then proving it in high speed driving. Unfortunately some believe that their cars are perfect and hold no improvement. If this is ok with them, I'm ok with it. I should mention that noting improvment doesn't mean the initial design was deficient, just limited. Ultimately, the market decides what the fair market value should be for the TR.

John

 

"The body on the TR is dated, but I'm a sucker for a V12 and I can't remember the last time I saw one on the road here in Toronto."

Regarding the lack of TR's in Toronto, be prepared to see lots of them this July as the Ferrari Club of America makes a stop there for the national meet, as well as MoSport. http://www.fca2008.org/

As for the comments, I apprecaite all of the feedback. While my car was down November 07 for the Colonial Cup in Camden SC, a friend let me barrow his TR while he traveled in his F40. What a friend, I must have put 600 mile on that car during the weekend-instant torque, and a very stable confortable ride. Now I have a delima, another friend with a 88.5 TR for sale with 10,980 miles on it for 56K, all the while I have been looking at a Hatteras 46 untill this came up. As you can tell for the pictures of my 348, I like the "cheese grates", and the baby TR as they have been called may need a big brother. Here are a few pictures from the FCA International meet at Waktins Glen and one of our local events.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Yeah, well, me and another guy.

Not really. This thread is (or was originally) about why prices are low, not about whether prices are 'wrong'. The market sets the price based on everything we've been discussing: styling, maintenance costs, rarity,nostalgia, etc. You may disagree with the market and regard the TR as screaming bargain, but the majority of potential and real buyers have assessed the car and established its value.

But... I think kerrywittig has the right idea. If the car makes you happy and you can afford it, then it's a good value for you, and worrying about the future market is academic. I'm ecstatic that 328s are mid-five figure cars -- I probably would have bought it for $80K, $90K, who knows. If it goes up, great. If the market "doesn't appreciate it", well... whatever.

 

I am not so sure. There is a camp that says the single mirror, single bolt early TR will catch and eventually surpass the 512TR. As there are only around 300-400 of these in the US so I can see why they will be more sought after. And if you think Denning is any indicator, the early TR has risen 21.14% over the past 2 years vs the 4.45% for the other TRs (and in the last 6 months the early TR has risen 10.29% while the other TRs have actually fallen 6.58%). This is from their Sept 07 market letter. (http://www.dennigcars.org/ferrari_market_value.htm).

 

1985 FERRARI TESTAROSSA $47,900

DESCRIPTION
1985 FERRARI TESTAROSSA, must sell, red, 11k orig mi, Miami Vice Edition, one side mirror looks new, rare exotic collector's dream, moving from area must sell first $47, 900, 305-867-7827.
SELLER INFORMATION

What is the Miami Vice Edition? Surely they are referring to the single high mirror, right? I must admit, I like this early car, then the 92-95 512. Anyone know this car in Miami? How many years did they make the one mirror TR?

 

The introduction of double low mirrors was at s/n 67487. The production s/n for 1986 were 59xxx - 67xxx and for 1987 were 67xxx - 74xxx. Thus, somewhere near the end of 1986 or the beginning of 1987. (Facts from http://www.red-headed.com/index2.html)

 

TR is an iconcic car...and will never look dated...

 

Bingo. I just bought my first F-car, did some major research on several models before I went with a 1989 328. What I really wanted was a TR, though, and still do. For the prices these days I think they are, without question, the best deal going. But the maintenance issues and costs about made my teeth drop out. I just couldn't justify it.