Painting my car myself!!!!!

I'm embarking on painting my new spoiler and one rusted (pass side) door bottom soon. Red is the color. So far I've not found any threads by anyone who's done painting work on their own car or can offer comment on the process. If anyone has done this recently or has some insight to my following questions, I much appreciate it. I've got my own spray equipment and a place to do it indoors. I'm mainly looking for a detailed procedure to follow of the # of primer coats, # of finish coats and what type and grit # sandpaper to use between coats and upon the finish.

1. Should I be concerned about different finish paint materials wearing/fading unequally? My car looks very good right now except for the rust bubbles starting to show. My car has been repainted once prior to 1996 and where I can see the old and new side by side (like behind the door panels) the match was excellent.
2. Should I be concerned about stripping the finish down to the original or bare metal and starting over?
3. What primer and finish paint materials should I use in this day of high tech products? I did a few of my old cars back in the early '70's using acrylic lacquer, then later acrylic enamel.
4. Are current computer color match techniques very good?
5. My (new) replacement spoiler is already primed but should I apply more before applying the finish?

OR.....am I nuts to even attempt this?

P.S. my car is not a show car. Just a weekend driver I want to look decent blasting around So. Cal.

Thanks in advance on anything (or any thread) you can comment on.


Bob R.

 

A few thoughts:

1. You will almost definitely need to have the door skin replaced. Rust bubbles tell me it's more than oxidized chips. Which means you'll need a serious respray because you will be at bare metal, and...
2. Red is very hard to match - computer-matching can help, but old paint is old paint.
3. It's not that expensive to have a good shop spray a spoiler.

 

Thanks for your comments Jon. My door is not too bad (yet). the rust is right at the bottom edge (photo attached) well below the black stip. I was hoping to just repaint the lower section (hey, stop laughing everybody!).

Know any good shops in the West Los Angeles area? I keep leaving phone messages at a nearby place in Culver City here called Premier Motor Sports (ads in FORZA). But they have never returned a call (???). Maybe I have to drive my car over and get in their face! They look pricey though - lots of 360's and 430's are in there for repairs at all times. My "cheap" 308 Euro driver may not be of interest to them.
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Observation:

I've noticed that some 308's have their lowest side panel (below the crease at the door bottom line) painted black. Was that an option, similar to the boxer scheme?

 

Yes, there was a 'boxer' paint option on 308s. Also I'm sure a few cars rusted out and matte black was just an easier respray choice. You can verify by getting a color certificate on the Ferrari Owner's site.

You aren't really going to know how major/minor that rust is till you sand it down. Fingers crossed, but if it's rusting from the inside-out that's a bigger deal. Surface rust, where the paint flakes off, is often not such a big deal.

If you're ever down in San Diego, Gary Bobileff's paint/body guy could assess it for you. They do mostly older cars (275 GTB, Miura, Boxer, 308/328, Dino 246...) and not as many 360/430 crash repairs. I'm sure there are good options up in LA - just not familiar with them.

 

Painting, especially when color matching, is an art. Either find something to practice on [an old door skin for example] or leave it to a pro. You can take a piece to a paint jobber and have it matched but it's still tricky. I have had color matches that you can't pick out and some that after a period will darken. If you are attempting the lower section at the parting line it may work...just test some sections. Also try a single stage paint vs. a base coat/clear coat. You may be able to wet sand it to a close match [finish wise].

Going with the black is the safest...if you like the look. I have considered it myself. I am in the same dilema

 

Yes, I've tried that FO site and could never get it to work for me. Do I have to join or something?

On my doors, I recently discovered (while repairing my window/pully systems) that the bottom door seals were installed right over the two drain holes in each of the door bottoms (did you see my posts on this?). This condition looked to be original as the rubber still had red overspray from (I presume) the re-paint. I believe this is tha cause of (my) 308 doors rusting. I've got replacement rubber ready to put back but will wait to fix the rust first.

By the way, my driver's door already had the bottom edge "fixed" - probably before the repaint. I can see the piece they welded in from the inside as they left welding wire bits all over the bottom!

 

My car's repaint was definitely a single stage job. That may help my cause, no? My finish has no visible orange peel texture and looks quite smoot/flat. I'm happy with it.

On single stage paint, how fast does it dry?

 

Bob sorry to say but you have some serious door problems. I had rust bubbles on the inside lower front of both of my doors and had to take it to a body shop. They needed to remove the doors and based on what I saw I was lucky that we caught it before it broke out to the outside skin. They managed to cut out and repair with new metal without damaging the paint on the outside. I have pictures on one of my threads if you search my posts. So my repairs for both doors came to $1000 and the computer matched the paint. So if you want to do this yourself I bet as soon as you grind away the bubbles you are going to have large holes in the side and bottom of the doors. I would think you would need to rebuild the bottoms and replace a major portion of the lower door skin. I see you have rust in the lower front of the door. This means that the outside lower skin and the front bottom is rotted out. I think you are looking at a min of 2 days work so that would be the labor. Don't get me wrong here I think if you have done body work in the past you could do this. I bet though you would need to remove the door and start from there. Good luck

 

A little extra work but a lot of Pros with paint the panel and then "Blend" the adjacent panels. They'll paint the panel first then reduce the paint with some clear and blend on to the other panels, reduce more and go a little further, then clear coat the whole thing and buff. If it's done right you can hide major differences in color or shade. The other thing is if you have a real good eye tint the paint till it matches perfect. Someone told me that to get the Ferrari paint to match you have to paint the panels black first, then spray the red becuase the red they use is almost like a candy paint that's slighty translucent? Don't know if it's true or not.

Maybe do a google search for automotive paint blending and see if anyone has an online demo. If not ask your local body shop supply house to hook you up with one of the factory reps. They go around to different body shops and do demos.

 

Yes, you need to register and have your VIN handy. It's free and can be helpful.

I concur. This probably isn't a sand-and-paint fix.

 

Sounds like this could get way out of hand.

OK, does anyone know of places in Los Angeles they've had body/paint work done at?

Should I concern myself with only going to a Ferrari (experienced) shop?


To Bullfighter: thanks on the FO site info. I'll try it now.

 

I am no painting expert, but I did do paint repair for a few years about 6 years ago. Since you asked here it is. This is basically the Cliff's notes of painting.

Starting with the rust repair. Sand that area down to the metal with 220 grit paper. Wet sand it and use a block. If you are inexperienced and you use your hand you will put slight grooves in the finish with uneven pressure on your fingers. Treat the rusted area with a product called "Ospho" I think it is phosphoric acid. It will neutralize the rust. You will likely need to fill the rust spots with body filler. Use thinly applied coats of filler and sand it smooth. I would use 220 here also. It will take more sanding and more paper but I have scarred the metal using more aggressive paper. If you can feel bumps with your hand you will see them after paint is applied. The more time and care that you take in the prep work the better your final product will be. Remember to clean the are with a cleaner (not thinner) between steps.
Once you have finished the prep work it is time to spray the primer. Use a high build primer and it is better to spray several thin coats than to try and spray it on thick. Also, when using a red base coat, tint the primer red with a little of your body paint. You can ask your paint supplier to do this for you if you are not comfortable doing it yourself. It will help when spraying the base coats. Red will show the primer through the base coats if you don't spray enough coats. The high build primer will fill in the small imperfections in the body work. (ie. pin holes) Sand the primer with 600 grit paper and again wet sand with a block get a flexible block that will contour to the body line while applying even pressure on the paper. Use lots of water and again feather the primer out so you don't feel the edge with your finger tips. Remember if you can feel it you can see it. You will need to sand the spoiler too and you might as well spray the red tinted primer on there too.
Now that you have finished your primer, sanded with 600 and cleaned the area again, you can start your base coats. The most important thing here is technique. You need to keep the gun the same distance from the panel. That means moving your whole arm instead of just swinging your wrist. Think of a pendulum, when it swings further from center it gets further from the ground. Your base coats will be uneven and it will just look wrong. Again, with the base coats use several thin coats instead of spraying it thick you don't want it to run or you will have to wait until it dries sand and spray again.
You will not need to sand the color before you spray the clear. The clear is the hardest part to spray. Spray it to heavy and it will run like the Kentucky derby to light and you have to buff the hell out of it to make it shine. Use the same technique to spray the clear keeping the gun the same distance from the panel. When you have cleared the whole area, let it dry completely ( over night if possible) Then wet sand with 1500 grit and buff with a good compound and a buffer. Sand too early or buff to aggressively and you will ruin it and have to start over.

With all of that said. It can be a very rewarding project and be alot of fun to see the finished product if it comes out well. I use DuPont paint products and 3m paper and compounds. You will have probably $400 to $500 in materials (red is the most expensive color) and honestly if you take it to a regular bodyshop,(not a "Ferrari" body shop) they will probably do the whole job for under $1000. Like I said I painted for about 2 years, 6 years ago and when I was doing it regularly I did work for Mercedes, Cadillac, Lexus, Saab, and BMW dealers. I still took my Ducati to a body shop when I needed the plastics repaired and painted last year. If you want to call me send me a PM and I will give you my cell number. Some of this is hard to explain in writing.

Good luck and keep us posted if you take this on yourself.

 

Painting and welding are artwork, not just skills.

IMHO, both should be left to professionals.

 

With all of that said. It can be a very rewarding project and be alot of fun to see the finished product if it comes out well. I use DuPont paint products and 3m paper and compounds. You will have probably $400 to $500 in materials (red is the most expensive color) and honestly if you take it to a regular bodyshop,(not a "Ferrari" body shop) they will probably do the whole job for under $1000. Like I said I painted for about 2 years, 6 years ago and when I was doing it regularly I did work for Mercedes, Cadillac, Lexus, Saab, and BMW dealers. I still took my Ducati to a body shop when I needed the plastics repaired and painted last year. If you want to call me send me a PM and I will give you my cell number. Some of this is hard to explain in writing.

Good luck and keep us posted if you take this on yourself.[/QUOE]

Jason,

Thanks very much for the "cliff notes". I can fully appreciate everything you you mentioned. I've actually done the process you mention at one time or another with some of my "teenage years" cars ( '65 MGB, '66VW, '64 Ford Van & '61 Corvair) back in the early '70's. Its just been over 35 years since my last effort!! I'd pay $1,000 - $1,500 in a second if I knew I'd get a decent job from it. I'll start inquiring shops locally before I reconsider the DIY method.

Thanks for your comments.

 

Bob, rust bubbles are like an iceberg. You are seeing 25% of it. This is quite normal... Actually take a look at my car getting stripped and you can see how we have replaced the metal in the door areas... It is no big deal really but a pro needs to do it. Red can be matched relatively easily unlike metallic colors... I have not seen your car but sometimes things like this can be fixed easier than you think if you have a solid color car like red or especially black.

 

After you spray the primer but before you sand get a spray can with some sort of "Laquer" of a light color if used dark primer or vice versa. Mist very lightly over the primed area and then sand until all the "guide coat" is gone. The mist of paint will settle into any low spots and sand right off the higher areas the first couple strokes with the sandpaper. Make sure the spray can is Laquer and not any other type of paint. Just a quick pass with the paint can from far away will do. Almost like a coat of dust. If you don't do this it's near imposible to see any tiny imperfections in the surface before you paint.

Also if you have any deep grinder marks in the existing paint feather edge them out with the 220 and the sanding block. If you fill a deep scratch with primer and then sand it smooth the scratch will come back when you paint the color on. It's called sand scratch swelling. I have been out of the business for a while so I'm not sure if this is as important if you use a 2 part epoxy primer that a lot of people use these days.
I always used 80 on the bondo, 220 on the primer and 800 on the color sanding and 400 wet on any existing paint I was going over

 

Here are some photos of my car. Up close it does not look as if there is a clear coat like on newer cars.
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I love the Euro look.......but, then again, I'm a little biased.

 

Easy way to tell if it's got clear coat is hit it with a little polishing compound. If the rag comes up red..no clearcoat. If you decide to paint it yourself get an old door from a junkyard and practice on it first. It's not rocket science but it takes a while to trust your fingers and not your eyes when it comes to doing bondo and paint prep. Spraying the car is the easy part, it's all in the prep work. First remove the wax with a good prep solution then grind away any paint where you are going to do bondo, it is not designed to stick to paint. After you think you have the bondo sanded correctly lay your hand flat, and close your eyes, and drag your hand slow over your work and if you can feel it, you will see it when you put paint on it. Try the hand thing on other parts of the car and get used to what you feel.

 

I would say leave it to the artists.

I remember a 17 year old friend of mine who stripped and painted his 69 Mach 1 fast back, in two tone, in his dad's carport. Then applied the decals and had himself a show car. He was also a talented artist.

So I thought what the heck? If he can do it, so can I. So I painted my 76 grand prix....
it looked like a giant silver colored orange, full of mosquito carcases, when I was done. Had to pay the junk yard to come and get it.
Dave

 

Bob, I did 99% of all the painting for our body shop till 5 years ago and I agree with Bullfighter and Steve King reguarding the rust issue,and PLEASE don't just fill the rust holes with body filler as someone suggested. These door skins are really thin and IMHO you should really find a shop with good customer feedback to do this job for you because I'm afraid you would be disappointed in the outcome. You can totally ruin these door skins in 10 minutes if you are attempting to weld patches and are not experienced.Also, trying to blend and match the flatness (no orange peel) and gloss of the factory paint without prior experience with the materials your using just isn't going to turn out well. I speak as someone who knows the learning curve well, but then again you never learn if you don't try! (although it might be best to start with something like an old honda)

 

Thanks Kim. I'm convinced of your warnings. I know of all the difficulties you speak of from my doing them in the "old" days. I've also been doing General Contracting as a high end custom remodeler for 36 years and have had to do it all - perfectly (to satisfy clients)! I feel I dop have the eye for detail to pull it off. But, I'm 57 now and am in no mood to get into a project way over my head, unexperienced and/or out of practice. I've gotten myself out of plenty of that (trouble) already. I now have the means to pay someone to do this work properly. I would just miss the "fun" and satisfaction of doing it myself. There are plenty of other things on the car I want (and can) to do that will not require my stepping into quite as big a pile of sh.t! Besides, I can probably make more $$ at my day job than it will take to pay someone else for the time I would spend myself on it.