MASSA Intends To Bid For 2008 WDC

He will allways be Alonshole in my book. He is probably the most disliked driver in years maybe ever. Im sure that every team he has been at there have been many working along side of him that just grit and bear him till the day hes gone.

 

I don't like Alonso - I think he's a whiny little beyotch.

But to claim he is not a great driver is insanity. If the metric is that a "great driver" must also have morals and a sense of ethics, then how can MS qualify? How many incidents can be recalled where MS displayed a lack of morals/ethics? Many times over his career - including his foible in Rascasse - at the *end* of his career, so being young and hot-headed is not excuse for that one.

So rather than put myself in the uncomfortable position of putting a set of criteria out there that Alonso does not pass that we say makes him not a great driver, then realizing Schumi fails the same criteria and coming to a dilemma that we hate Alonso but our justification has compromised our rose-colored glasses we view the Scuderia through, I prefer to just be honest with myself. And in being honest with myself I can say I just don't like Alonso, even though he's a great driver.

Isn't that easier than coming up with all sorts of convoluted tests and metrics for why Alonso is bad but others are good?

Ignore the above at your peril - look at how this Lucky guy portrayed himself earlier in the thread... Ferrari didn't cheat because they didn't use team orders, just team tactics, and since Massa knew he wasn't going to be allowed to win anyway, it was not a during-the-race order for him to move over.

LOL - come on, nobody wants to label themselves with that display of reasoning (aka after-the-fact justification) do they?

 

But getting back to this threads title...........I believe Massa will shape into a great driver. He will win more races this coming season and possilbly be in the running for the WDC. It will very interesting to see all the drivers without TC this season. Cant wait.....I will catch the first 3 races while in Florida golfing. Also cant wait to see Massa finish way ahead of Alonshole and collect $100 from Mr Senna

 

Pot, Kettle. Kettle Pot.
Considering the HUGE number of post you just took out of context due to the time they were posted by Senna3x in the spy saga, you’ve just shown yourself to be a complete hypocrite.

 

Please point out were I said he is NOT a great driver? That's right you cannot Mike!

 

I dont think anyone will say that Alonshole is not a very good driver. But it is his loose tongue and what he says that make him unliked by many. Many top drivers have had their indiscretions on the track. Thats part of racing and it involves split second thought processes. But when you are cool and stand in front of a camera and blame your team for your not winning.....When you stand in front of a camera in your home country and tell everyone that you owe your being at the top to no one. Well thats when you earn such names as Alonshole. How one portrays themselfs in public has a lot to do with his or her image and Alonshole has not portrayed himself very well infact I dont think anyone could do a better job than Alonshole in portraying one self so low in the publics eyes. I can almost garantee that he will do it again this year. I can also garantee that some in here will make excuses for him behaving that way again.

6 weeks to go

 

I will be doing a more thorough analysis of this when I get back to a real desk.

And Lucky, seriously, take a break from Ferrarichat.

 

I already have copiled lots of numbers and Massa is the better driver and he has only completed 2 seasons with Ferrari. But looking at all 3 drivers (Irvine, Rubens, Massa) Irvine 146 total races with 4 wins and 0 poles. Rubens 251 races with 9 wins and 13 poles. Massa 88 races with 5 wins and 8 poles. There is much more but Im on my way out now. I think these numbers alone say lots.

 

Hey 355 - where in Toronto are you? I'm in Caledon beside the mountain. I know some great roads our f-cars could really stretch their legs. Let me know if you are ever in this area.
Btw- you and lucky are spot on.

 

I could provide the dates and times the comments were made. Also a lot more comments, but it would make no difference. Besides I was asked to drop it. So I am. I did not want to even started but was called out repeatedly.
So to everyone who endured my 30+ quotes, my apologies.

About the Brazilian race last year. I would like to know how many people here think that Ferrari cheated to the WDC. Because this is what few here are saying. "They broke the rules. They cheated."
Not one. And I mean not a single soul in the world following F1 expected anything different to happen in Brazil. The commentators were talking about it before the race even. It was not a question of if it has to be done and IF it will be done, but how. And actually on Speed tv they were commenting about the options Ferrari had in order to execute what needed to be done without breaking the rules. I am sure that plenty people here have taped the broadcasts and can watch them again and they can hear again what was said after the race from commentators(two of whom clearly McL bias). I am not saying that Ferrari never cheated. I am not saying that were always the most ethical and moral team on the track ever. All I said was that in Brazil they did not break the rules in any way. That is a fact. If it wasn't then the brainiacs from the silver-smoke-screen team would have jumped on it instead of going the much harder and dishonorable way of protesting the race by trying to disqualify other teams in order to regain the championship that their own drivers lost.

 

Does this require that you go to church, and if you go to church can you block your competitors at Monaco?

 

How about this:

You manage to suggest he's a great driver and he's NOT a great driver in the same sentence.

 

LOL

 

So you would call him that to his face right.....?

 

You claimed that I blamed Ferrari solely for the Stepneygate affair. You provided not one single post that I said this, NOT ONE SINGLE POST. With all your research, you provided NOT ONE SINGLE POST!!!!! You instead decide to selectively pull comments from my posts, present them in as negative a light as possible, and conveniently ignore every single post I made after the final FIA hearing. Yes, that is convenient and I know you were trying to denigrate me as much as you can but two facts remain: one, I have forgotten more about F1 having my morning bowel movement than you have learned in your entire life, and two:

YOU ARE A LIAR!!!!!!!!!

You made a fraudulant claim about me and you have the unmitigated gall to then claim the burden of proof is on me to prove you wrong?!? It is no different than for me to make a baseless claim about you and then say the burden of proof is on you to prove me wrong. That is simply idiotic logic.

In all your "research" you could not find ONE SINGLE POST to support your libelous claim, NOT ONE SINGLE POST!!

And of you want to start dredging up posts about incorrect predictions, watch out. You are without question the least informed participant on these boards by a huge, huge margin. Your previous posts are so utterly ridiculous and so lacking in any material cintribution to any discussion at hand that it is actually embarrassing. I, unlike you, DO have a life and I have no interest in wasting my time dredging through your posts as they are already a sufficient waste of bandwidth as it is.

That is it, I am done with you. You, by your own admission, have grouped yourself with those with no life and nothing better to do. That five hours you spent could have been better spent actually trying to learn something about F1, but no, instead you need to make a fool out of yourself instead. Go away, you have nothing to contribute on these boards.

 

Not in a million years would he...

 

Lucky and Senna.

You need to put each other on ignore. Or you need to tone down the rhetoric and insults.

I know you race guys get all hot and bothered as the season approaches, and I appreciate your passion for the cars, drivers, etc.

BUT you guys need to chill. I know another mod has already talked to you about it, as have I. So please, for the sake of the hundred other guys who come in here, relax a little, and get off each other's backs.

Dave

 

I am amazed that you want to reprise this ridiculous argument. Simply because I wanted to wait for proof and not simply leap to conclusion on hearsay somehow makes me a McLaren fan?!? Did I not call for McLaren to face the maximum penalties once they were found guilty after the second hearing? Just because lucky "conveniently" chose to exclude that information means you want to ignore that too?

Ridiculous. I expect such weak logic from lucky, he is not capable of anything more, but you are better than that.

I was supporting Kimi when you and all the rest of the part-time "tifosi" were calling for his head. And despite my dislike of Massa, I never once proclaimed that my support with the team would end with his employment, unlike you and so many others making that same proclamation about Alonso. My support of Ferrari has existed long before the birth of many folks on here, it never wavered during the lean years and it is as strong now, despite the employment of a driver I feel is unworthy.

Neither you, lucky, nor any of the other CONDITIONAL Ferrari supporters here can make that claim.

I never called Alonso Sennas replacement. You want to find that post?

What I have said is that the successor to Senna and Schumacher as greatest driver of his generation is Hamilton. I have a strong feeling that Alonso is going to Ferrari in the next couple of years but I have an equally strong feeling that Hamilton will never go there. I am not bitter about either, though apparently you are.

It will be a great day when Alonso joins Ferrari as we can bid all the fair-weather Tifosi adieu...

I lost count of how many times I stated that I want Alonso at Ferrari because I want Ferrari to have the strongest driver line-up possible. I don't want Massa there because I think he is a mediocre driver in an excellent car and he has cost the team the WCC in at least one season.

How is it that your calling for the ouster of Ferrari's lead driver IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS FIRST SEASON with the team is somehow acceptable and "in the best interests of the team" and shouldn't lead to questioning the strength if your support for the team?!? How is it that criticizing Kimi during his first WDC season is "in the best interests of the team" but caling for the replacement of a middling driver with the reigning 2X WDC is not in the best interests of the team. How is it that you are in a position to decide "what is in the best interests of the team" when you are willing to call for the ouster of the #1 driver 4 races into his season and declaring that your support of the team is completely condition whereas a guy like me, who has been supporting the team since the 1970s, who has supported the team despite not likeing one of the drivers, and who has declared that his support of the team will NEVER WAVER no matter who drives for them is somehow not in a position to declare what he thinks is "in the best intersts of the team"?!? You use curious (read: baffling) logic here.

I recognize that you are simply arguing your position. But don't use such weak logic to question my position, it simply makes no sense and only undermines your own argument.

 

Done

 

Neither did Schumacher.

Most F1 drivers are not particularly nice people. Most top-level professional athletes have flaws, regardless of the sport. Reaching the top of any sport, maybe even any profession, requires single-minded devotion that will allow other, less palatable, personality characteristics to emerge.

To become an F1 champion requires a high degree of selfishness. Don't take my word for it, there are plenty of biographies of F1 drivers that will support this and any F1 journalist would readily agree. You don't go into F1 because you want to make new friends and be all warm & cuddly, you go into f1 to win. Some are driven to win more than others. Those guys are called champions.

I find it interesting that so many folks criticize Alonso for displaying attributes that can be readily attached to virtually all F1 champions, including (especially) to their beloved Schumacher.

 

somehow, it gets really boring when each thread leads to Massa VS Kimi, and MS vs Senna. seriously.

 

So much for that.

 

An interesting question and hard to answer. How do you define dislike? As in the majority of F1 fans rather dislikes him than likes him or as in the driver who had the most people disliking him? Big difference. MS was/is hugely disliked by thousands of people, but they are (I believe) outnumbered by people who like(d) him. Similar arguments could be made for Prost or even Senna although his death made him a saint.

Bottom line is: Great drivers polarize.

Why are we continuing the discussion over Alonso and why don't we discuss the moral behavior of Verstappen, Ide, Kartheykyian (sp?)?

The second part of your statement is easier to answer: They totally loved him at Minardi and Stoddart still misses him (as recently expressed in an interview) and the Renault guys despite all the bickering welcomed him back with open arms because they know that a Fisifella won't develop the car nor has the fire to drive the team forwards. At McLaren they sure all hate him. So that makes two out of three teams on his side.

 

Not only is it boring, it drives people away. There seems to be far fewer different posters in the racing section than there use to be. I would bet it's because people really don't like being degraded for what driver/team they choose to support anymore. I just really dont get the need by some to endlessly argue their opinion like its fact to no end. State your piece and move on. It is really starting to look like a junior high, female, BS fest every time I sign on here. It's getting incredibly old.

Mark

 

I'm sure you have the stats to back this up.

We're in the winter season, where many folks just don't come here until the GP season starts again.