A bit premature but see if you can find a couple sets of Kevlar blower straps to wrap the whole thing up in. Just a thought.... Marks motto.. "Excess is barely adequate" Your nuts, and I enjoy this a lot!
LOL So I'm guessing all my talk of 348 nikasil liners must have confused the heck out ot you. Do you know if the liners are anything specail or I can just buy blanks from somebody like darton and make what I want?
I have to admit I did was a tad confused for a moment. I dont think the aluminum liners are the direction I would look to go with a 820HP 9800 rpm engine (LOL, the first lier at the bar or in the paddock never stands a chance) as I dont believe them to be stable enough for the task. If you are going to Nikasil the liners after mods I see no reason to pay for the big money parts. There are numerous liner suppliers that are far cheaper and I am not so sure they arent all using the same rough blanks. I sent you a PM with some cam specs I have been experimenting with. Still working on the computer to get the photos to send Dave
Dave, I just had it in my head that all the newer ferraris had the nikasil aluminum liners. Now that I know that's wrong I'm thinking plain iron sleeves. I see no reason to even think about coating them with anything unless you have a reason??? I'm talking to the Darton guys trying to find an inexpensive blank. The ones I've picked so far they quoted me $60.48-$76.68. I have 1 more part number I want a price on before I order anything. I can make what I think I what out of any of them, so whichever part # is the cheapest will be the winner. I'm glad I got a 348 liner in my hands anyway. Ferrari did a nice job designing it, much nice than the 400 version. I started working on a design for my engine that is very similar to the 348 but longer from the top to the o-ring to fit the 400 block without needing an adapter. I'm also thinking I'm going to use 2 o-rings and seal on the OD of the o-ring instead of in compression like the 308 design (maybe the 348 already does this???) for added security. The 348 liner looks like a 1.5mm (.080) thick spigot. Im thinking of dropping that to 1.25mm (.070) and making the whole thing 1mm oversize. That will give me my 86.5mm bore without making the liner much weaker and not taking any more metal out of the block then I have to. I think the spigots on the 400 liners are 3mm, so Ill only need to open up the block bores 2mm to add 5.5mm to the bore and get my 5.5 liters.
Has it been mentioned you are certifiably crazy? I have a couple of blocks I considered scrap until this thread. I will look for my notes regarding the liner research I did. The 348 used 1 oring up on the top seat in the radius area and I like your idea of a second on the OD. You would have to grow the block quite a bit so you could insure that the lower ring doesnt roll upon install. The $60-75 is quite reasonable for the Darton pieces. What PSI rating do they show for those liners? Glad you are back to the iron liner thought, that will speed up the completion of the project and allow a budget for Kevlar. What DRO units are you using, I am in need of upgrading at a reasonable price. Dave
I think 1 or 2 people might have mentioned that..... 100,000 psi min Mine is a mitutoyo. Grizzy tool has a great price on them...I chickened out and when brand name on the mill but I'm thinking I may get one for the lathe though http://www.grizzlyimports.com/products/searchresults.aspx?q=DRO
By memory thats 3 times the rating of others I have used? Most are in the 35K range. Thanks for the DRO link, that looks like a very good value. I will order one this weekend. Dave
Here's the material specs - they have 3 different kinds listed ranging from 30-100kpsi. There standar is the 100kpsi stuff from what I've read, but I'll confirm that. http://www.dartonsleeves.com/mat_spec.htm
Lana told me I had to do the taxes instead of playing cars yesterday ....that and the little you decided to start walking so we had to keep a better eye on him as he's not very good at it just yet and our whole house has hardwood floor...which are well, hard when you fall. I did get in about an hour and started indicating the bolt pattern that's in the block. I noticed there are already 2 locating pin holes drilled even though they weren't used in the 400 set-up, so I don't have to figure out where to add pins. The 400 just had a pan so location was very important, but on the 308 trans the pan flange is what locates the engine and needs pins. I'll finish up tonigh hopefully and then get on with machining the trans case.
Now that I'm thinking seriously about the liners I contacted Garloc. They recommended a .093" cross section pressure filled O-flex seal that is silver plated as the best option at $62.50 each. That would not leave me much material on either side of the groove...like less than .030". He wasn't keen on the idea of using a .062" cross-section instead and said it works on some engines and not others. Hes going to get back to me on whether I could possibly make the groove under the .125 standard width to gain some wall thickness. This might bring me back to pain old cheap copper head gaskets. I guess I could make the liners a light press in the block like the 400 was. Then I can machine the tops of the liners after they are installed and know the deck is flat so the copper gasket will seal. Ill have to think about this a bit more.
Back to work. I finished up mapping the stud and pin locataions so I'll be able to drill in the trans case to match the engine. Also while the engine was indicated in I drilled the threads out of the holes that will need to recieve studs mounted in the trans case and move 1 one hole that was under the original motor mount because there would be no way to put a nut on. Tomorrow I'll get back to machining the trans case. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
For some reason the song "Weird Science" by Oingo Boingo keeps going through my head when I read this thread.
It turns out I'm appearently just not trying hard enough. Here's a quote from the custom cylinder guy "Trust me I have seen things much worse than what you are trying to do."
The cylinder liner blanks are ordered. The cheapest (and therefore ideal) part number I could find that had useable dimensions was $60.48 each. I dont truly need the liners until I'm ready to final assemble the engine but I though it best to have the liners worked out before I do any machining on the block. I started working in the CAD model of the liners over lunch the other day and hopefully I'll find time to finish it up this week. It's about time to get the block straightened out and the first step will be rough cutting out the bores to remove as much of the weld excess weld as possible in hopes that things might spring back a bit. Then it looks like Ill be doing some new welding on the main bearing journals to put them back where they belong. I need to see if one of the local machine shops can handle the line boring for me or if Ill need to ship it to TX or CA to one of the Ferrari shops. Either way I want to talk to the person who will be doing the line boring before I do anything to be certain they can work with what I give them. In theory I could line bore it on my mill but....... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Mark, How are you figuring on cooling this monster? Stock radiator? Oversized Radiator? Separate Oil Coolers? Just wondering if you've figured that out yet? Great project by the way! Joe
Joe, I already have an oversize aluminum radiator and a water/oil heat exchanger I installed to cool the supercharged engine thatat I'm thinking will still do the job. This engine will make more heat at full power but since this car will not be going roadracing I don;t think it will ever be at full power long enough to see any hint of over heating. If I'm wrong they make even bigger radiators
Tonight I got the engine location sorted and finish machined the left side of the trans case. I missed the position I was shooting for on the rails by .055 which is still fine, but the engine would sit .055 to the front side so I decided to split it by setting the engine just a little lower so it will only sit .030 to the front which I dont think anyone but me would ever notice. Ill re-cut the top of the rails tomorrow when I set up to drill the holes for the bolts. On the plus side the radius I bent in the press and welded on the end turned out nice and looks very even. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here's an address, just in case: www.macsradiator.com I got them to weld up a pair of aluminum radiators for my plane (with Subaru power) and got excellent service and product from them. Hans
They are pretty cheap. Mine was $200 at summit about 6 years ago...it looks like they're up to $300 now at summit but only $225 on the site you found. As I recall, I the one I bought was for a Chevy but I had to rewelded on the outlets to point the way I wanted, add a vent, remove the filler neck and new brackets in the car becasue it BIG compared to stock. Then an 18" electric fan and all my cooling problems were gone.
I'm sure you've thought of this but I'll throw it out there anyway. Something that will improve your cooling, run the QV style outflow vent in the bonnet if you are not already and/or open up the convoluted path from the radiator to the front wheel wells/fender vents. This would involve ditching the full size spare and modifying the wheel tub for a space saver spare, or eliminating the wheel tub and spare all together. An auxiliary water pump, (electric) will enhance cooling in traffic or while sitting. You can have 20" fans but if the water isn't circulating at a good rate while the engine is idling you won't be able to take advantage of the airflow efficiency. The pump can be mounted upfront.
