Fatal 360 crash

i was to meet with zientarski at geneva motor show... that was a terrible accident. he had three operations hitherto; he has moved lung and stomache, broken both hands and legs, back in three parts, liver in parts was operated today. i really, really can't imagine how the rest of his life will look like. he's been used to riding fast, but mostly on bikes. he drove ferrari only once before buying this one - had some V8 for two days in UK. more interestingly, he had money for that car from advertising safe driving promoting insurance company (with his farther, another famous car journalist and the man who made him one too) - the billboards are being pulled off now...

 

I guess he learned his lesson the hard way! Unfortunately, he brought a poor soul down along with him.

 

It's not the speed that kills....... it's that sudden stop.........

 

There are many well documented cases detailing highly dangerous driving acts that have taken place well within the legally posted limits, many of which have been fatal too. Concentrating on speed per say as the main contributer of road fatalities is just too simplistic to stand up to the facts but it is far easier for governments to administer and enforce strict speed limits than to address root causes of many road deaths. Its not just one thing, its driver training, improved road layout and surfaces, better car technology standards (both in terms of crash protection such as the European NCAP car design, handling improvements, braking, electronic driver aids, etc.) - all of which are vastly more expensive to implement.

I absolutely agree it is far easier to just blanket brainwash a population into believing that speed is the root of all evil but that does not mean its true. It is the exact same thing that is happening now with CO2 generated from the combustion engine. Despite power generation plants contributing orders of magnitude more CO2 than cars many just jump on the motorist and want them to pay all the tax but I digress...

Just because a road has a maximum speed limit specified it does not mean you should be driving up to that limit all of the time, like many people do, conversely there will be times when its safe to drive quicker than the posted limit too. The road conditions absolutely need to be a strong consideration, rain, sleet, snow, black ice, high winds, congestion, every road condition should make you adapt your driving style. Some times that maximum limit is way too high not only for the conditions but for the car and/or the driver. If you do not adapt your driving style to suite are you really any less culpable? Just because you where driving within the posted limit you think your better? I think not.

If you look at facts you'll appreciate that most scientific studies carried out on car accidents do not cite speed as the major cause. Mostly it is lack of driver awareness, education, road condtions and many other factors which are the true cause of the fatalities - not just speed. I absolutely agree speed decreases your ability to react in time but you can likewise kill well within the speed limit too.

I'd personally like to see better driving standards, blanket adoption of electronic driver aids such as ASR, ABS even on cheaper cars and ofcourse substantially better roads with improved visibility and less blind accident 'black spots'.

 

Are you saying that he should've expected or was expecting the accident!? If you read the rest of the post and actually understood the arguement you would somehow connect the relevence as to why I posted the issue with Senna! Im sure you have a lot more common sense than that!

 

Terrible accident......I have never seen a wreck like that.

My condolences to all family and friends.

 

I am veŕy sorry what happened, thats tragedy and disaster for all involved people, families. My condolences all of them. I read the post and checked all the available pictures and it makes me scarry.... One thing is sure, the driver was very stupid to go 200 km in city.

This actually reminds my own accident when i crashed with my Nissan 300zx TT into power pole in speed 100 km. There was speed limit 60km. Very bad road with tramlines and it was raining. I skidded on the wet road and the wet tramlines and crashed in full speed 100 km directly to power pole from passenger side. Althought the car was not totally crashed like this one, practicaly only seats and rear part of car stayed ok. I was lucky i survived,althought i spent some time in hospital. If i would have passenger, he would be propably dead. And it was 100 km, not 200 km like this case. This happened 9 years ago. I was VERY stupid. Since that i never drive fast on city roads, never pass on bad visible places and always use seat bealts. When is raining, i drive like old lady.I drive faster on normal roads out of city with good visibility. But on highways and especially in Germany i go over 200 km without any fear.....

 

My brother died in a car accident - he was the innocent passenger. Two friends also died in the same year - 1996. The truth
is SPEED DOES KILL when its on a public road and the simple reason is, NOT EVERY ONE is as smart as we are!

There are people screwing around with maps, looking at the pretty countryside, fiddling around with mobile phones, playing around with CD's, sat-nav's, falling asleep after a night shift, missing their exit and trying to jump two lanes (an american tradition), drink driving. IF and ONLY IF, you can account for everyone being 100% on the ball then 200 kmh is very safe. The truth is the fools that do all of the above should have their licenses revoked in my opinion and the rest us of should be allowed to drive as fast as the ROAD allows.

Not all roads are good for 200 are they? But a straight highway certainly is.

So my opinion is get the SCUM off the road. They are technically driving around in weapons. One fool making a bad judgement, pulling out without looking is what the problem and my concern is. I have only been honked at angrily once in the last few years. Hands up, it was my fault, but the truth is the guy behind me was only going 10 - 12 km/h and I was just pulling out - worst case scenario, I would have paid for his damage and he would have told his friends some idiot in a flashy car got what he deserved.

So this argument will go on and on and on, I work for a German company and many of us have fast cars, Porsche, Ferrari, MB, Audi or BMW. Most of the guys have at least one or two nice cars. Nearly everyone tells stories of nasty accidents involving speed.

On a side not, I had my license renewed recently and got a lecture on road safety. Japan is one of the WORST countries in the world!! In 2006 there were nearly 14,000 deaths! 2007 figures not out yet. In fact, it was the worst of the "civilized" countries as the lecturer put it!

 

Actually Delta V is what kills---Not speed....

 

+1 = Delta V = Change in velocity..

 

Talking about stupidity...You read it again and still hit the post reply button?

Which statement was stupid, and why?

unfortunate=suffering from bad luck

200 in a 50 in a known road with a dangerous bump? No way he was suffering from bad luck, if there is a high probabilty of losing it, like it has happened several times on that spot. The bump poses no hidden risk or obstacle at 50, so the road is not the one to blame, but the driver. About the passenger beeing killed, the passenger is obviously as guilty as the driver...

 

thats the most horrible crash that i have ever seen. i think no matter what people feel as far as speeding on public roads, this will probably stick in all of our minds when we think about hitting that pedal down.

 

Oh no, i have the feeling that you just like to argue and argue and argue, it's oK, making short, what I said was, IT'S WRONG TO DRIVE LIKE MANIAC IN PUBLIC ROADS therefore i agree with you about that.......... then.. i think that It's not "cool" to say "ask senna .....blah" considering IMO that even trying to be funny about it it's pretty tasteless, like making fun of victims of a fatal airplane crash, see my point?? i hope so, if not, forget about it, nothing will make me change my mind about your "ask Senna about it" comment and how I think it was pretty lame.

Oscar

 

Who's arguing!? Its called a debate! And who said anything about making fun of fatally injured people!? Im not saying that you should change your mind or even side with me on anything. The point is, most people die from a high speed incident! Period!! If you MISUNDERSTOOD the whole point about the Senna thing, then I think you are in need of a "major service". Im thinking you were reading my post with the wrong tone. Read the rest of my posts and maybe you might see what the point was.

 

No, its called I edited my post!

I really hope that you or any of your family members dont get into or worse, get killed in a serious accident as a passenger. Its statements like these that worries me about how many dumb people there are out there that have licenses. I seriously hope that you are just kidding otherwise you my friend need serious help! Oh and by the way, the comment in the dark box wasn't made by me. I was "QUOTING" the message I was replying to. Just so were clear on that.

And you say Im stupid!? Read your own post. I think you just validated my point regarding the "SPEED KILLS" theory!

 

ROFL!

However, in regards to this accident, my condolences to everyone involved.

 

It's a simple matter of logic. For example - an onion CAN make your eyes water when cutting it, but that is not ALWAYS the case. Same as doing 100km/h CAN be dangerous (depending on conditions), but is not always.

No, not anarchy - but also it needs a little reality check from the authorities to help them see that artificially lowering speed limits will only lead to a general disregard for them. People usually don't like to conform to that which is deprived of sense.

Delta V over t

True... it has given me a lot to think about

 

At first I was annoyed, but after consideration, I am not sure I can disagree. I have a friend who was running in her neighborhood facing traffic (25 mph) who was hit from behind by a mom in a minivan who was turned around to look at her kids. She was thrown into her neighbors front yard. Another lady was hit head-on in our neighborhood (also 25 mph) by a teenage girl trying to dial her cell phone. The lady had come to a stop, was honking her horn, and the girl did not touch the brakes, totalled both cars (minivan and Durango). A colleague of mine was cycling on a Saturday afternoon a few miles from my house in a spot where he was in what is essentially an extra lane. The lady who hit him had also turned to talk to her kids. Never saw him. He was a prominent cardiothoracic surgeon and she - ironically - was a nurse in the CCU. She hit him at 55+. I was at his funeral. The casket was not open. Needless to say, she was very distraught. But the community outcry was more of "gee, it's dangerous to ride your bike on the road" and not "pay attention when you are driving!!!!"

 

I am the one needing help? Its you my friend who needs help, you really need a reality check. In most cases of speeding and doing crazy stuff on the road the passenger is not the innocent victim but an agreeing person and hence the passenger is evenly guilty of the outcome.

If I need help I guess that most of the world's courts are going to need some serious help.

Dont have to say that, its obvious [The senna comment alone confirms it]. You lack reading comprehension and your reply has nothing to do with the posted argument, all you seek is to try to score personal attacks on fellow board members without a valid reason, hence I am just going to ignore your **** from now on, oh and I doubt anyone is contesting the speed kills theory.

 

Same thoughts here.

 

Thanks for all the detail. It still is very sad to see this happen anywhere.

 

Was speed to blame when he rammed Prost's car? While speed may be a factor, it is not generally the cause. Speed doesn't kill, it's the stop that does you in.

 

Guys, the point of the matter here is that a person had lost control of an F-Car that had exceeded the speed limit by almost 100%. He killed his passenger and had seriously injured himself. It is quite obvious that the speed was in fact one of the main factor to this particular accident.

This had already been blown way out of proportion and obviously most people here will not concede to another man's opinion. All I was saying originally was speeding in a public highway is in fact dangerous and should not be practised (IMHO). Go ahead and speed, I really dont care if you get injured or killed! Its when an inocent bystander or a passenger (even if he/she wasn't voicing out his/her concerns) gets involved that really bothers me and a lot of people.

The road law is clearly there not just to annoy us, it was implemented to try and stop us from injuring ourselves and/or someone else. Owning a fast automobile is not an instant ticket to go speeding (or excessively slow driving to the point where its actually dangerous) on public roads. Take it for what its worth and lets all just move along.

Regarding the Senna debate, just because the fact that the speed issue (IMO) had been whitewashed by the lawyers from both sides of the parties doesn't mean that it was not a major factor for his death (AGAIN IMO). If people misunderstood my Senna comment then hey, tough SH*T! Dont expect an apology cause I will not take any of my comments back just because you did not understand it.

For the people who posted unwarranted comments, well at the end of the day we all know that it was all just your ego!

 

So what you are saying is that you are right and everyone else is wrong. And its because their ego's wont let them admit they're wrong. Uh huh. OK. I guess thats all there is to say.