Long Term Storage : Help | FerrariChat

Long Term Storage : Help

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by SonomaRik, Mar 3, 2008.

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  1. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran

    NOT a specific Ferrari question, but a valid technical question to those who have dealt with storing a water, tank like device for long term. Might translate into Ferrari storage too....or not.

    I installed Solar Panels on my home about eigtht months ago: In CA, the deal basically is, that you sell energy to PG&E which goes into a sort of 'bank account'. You use energy from PG&E, which gets a monthly billing. If you use less, than you generate you pay nothing but the manidatory $8/month transmission line charge.

    This 'bank account' is based on an anniversary from the install/go-live date. Won't bore with the details of that mess, but, in my case, it is AUG of every year.

    IF, and this sucks, at the END of your anniversary date, you have a surplus $$$ in your bank account, then PG&E says "Thanks for the free energy you gave us.." then they zero out the account, and you and PG&E start from zero, again, for then next years uses. IF you used more energy than you produced there is a balance owning, which won't be my case.

    For me, although I sized my panels correctly, I am making MORE money on the sale to PG&E than I am using. I have several hundred Dollars now in the pipe I cannot get back...GOOD news is I pay zero electrical bill.

    PG&E is forcing me to use more electrical. I NOW NEED to find more ways to use energy, electrical, than other forms to regain those lost dollars.

    This morning I purchased, on-line from BOSCH, a whole, house tankless/on-demand water heater. The cost $600 delivered w/ tax etc..

    GREAT!!!!!!! I can cut out my gas water heater [about $50+/month] and basically pay nothing for water heating. via gas savings.

    QUESTION for anyone:

    I AM NOT going to remove that gas heater from the actic. Too heavy and cumbersom, and WHY? what if gas costs get back in line, I would then have a choice. A bit of plumbing and I can be ready for whatever ails me: COOL.

    I Want to keep that gas heater so question is: HOW do I put this tank into mothballs?

    since many of you have dealt with long term or heard of such long term storage of say radiators etc. I am wondering the best way to store this tank for later use.


    Do I just drain it, Do I fill it with a chem. of some sort, which I don't like, or ???

    help, thanks
    rik
     
  2. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 24, 2004
    9,334
    DC/LA/Paris/Haleiwa
    Full Name:
    Mr.
    Rik,

    First, congrats.... I think it's great that you are using solar power. I wish I could...... I would think the solar system was quite expensive and you should be able to offset the cost with the electrical savings. I don't know how PG&E gets away with this "anniversary" issue.

    Regarding the WH, I would find out from the manufacturer how the tank was made and what their recommendations are. Typically, WH are just simple steel tanks with some anit-corrosion material but depending on brand and year made it could be different. So, at first stab, I'd drain it and blow some air into it to dry it out. Maybe some descant material might keep the tank humidity level low.
     
  3. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran

    thanks, you gave me an idea too: drying-material to position at one end to keep interior dry.

    What I hope to do is make a switch-over valving mechanism to permit either electric or gas depending.

    Yes the system was expensive. The payoff at the current rate will be 20 years [assuming the way I use energy & prices noted today -- prices will go up: PS There were large energy rebates/credits too from PG&E and Feds ] I am in a class where I sell at a higher value than the energy I use: it was cleaver how that was accomplished, but if you sell all day, especially during a peak time, you get more money. The time I typically use energy is during off-peak.

    Saving gas, would be, now, the kicker/icing on the cake. Although, I had a natural gas BBQ installed outside, which I use almost constantly, I believe according to stats, that over 50% goes toward hot water heating : SHowers, where kids DRAIN it, washing and sometimes dishwashing, which even if a Star Energy product, still sucks up most gas energy.

    I will contact the mfgr. MOST plumbers haven't a clue, from the ones I've casually inquired, since they usually tear them out or put them in and not too concerned with storage.
     
  4. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 24, 2004
    9,334
    DC/LA/Paris/Haleiwa
    Full Name:
    Mr.
    Sounds like you really planned it out well...... great job. I too would like a way to cut my gas (NG) bill. In the winter I can easily spend $1200/month with the gas heat (2 zones).

    If you have any difficulty with the manufacturer PM me and I will contact them for you. Sometimes as a consumer you don't reach the right people.

    Good luck
     
  5. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,052
    Rockville/Olney MD
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    I might look into RV anti Freeze as well. It's non toxic. The other thing might be to add some bleach before draining it. This way if there is something left in the tank it won't be something that will cause mold or bacteria? I'm not an expert, just some initial thoughts.
     
  6. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
    Full Name:
    James K. Woods
    What about just replacing it with an electric tank and using the over-production of electricity you have to produce a back-up supply of hot water? Then you wouldn't have to worry about long-term storage, and it would use up some of what your PGE company is cheating you over on the anniversary.

    I was of the impression that these usually have a ceramic lining that is pretty much corrosion free, but I would be worried about it getting stagnant if you just valved it off for several years...at any rate, they are not that expensive compared to the investments you describe with the solar.

    James
     
  7. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran

    will do, looking tonight after work.
    thanks....and, $1,200, yes, that sounds commercial.
     
  8. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran

    thought of anti freeze too, with the exception it might turn, and require maintenance over time. not a bad approach, was more looking towards a 'mothballing' scenario: lights out

    one of the other concerns I thought was doing the chlorine thing too, except for possible rust do to inactivity. however, might have a rust free interior. NOT up on my latest water heaters.

    BTW THis heater is three years old, came new with house.
     
  9. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran

    Thanks James:
    If I read you correctly,
    In a way I am replacing this with an electric, albeit on demand unit. Thought of just going the lower costing electric tanked heater for only < $300, but then, thought I would try the tankless approach as a better use of energy savings: Read the dept of energy take on electric on-demand and they were not crazy about it, UNLESS you had electrical power to spare.

    ONE other reason for install of tankless is I can do the work. It's small enough and the plumbing is fairly straightfw'd. Actually should be fun, spilling water in the actic and all ;)

    I truly have no need for a backup supply of hot water. We haven't the great power outages here, and if so, I could even use the power directly since it must be converted to AC before the meter.

    A dual system would still allow me to keep the gas in place for possible later use 'should' gas come down in price, I would perhaps consider a switch: not likely to happen.

    Ceramic lining is good news, would mean no rust, nor corrosion to worry about, just drain and cap. will have to see.

    One final aspect of this 'investment' is that I know I will NOT be in this house ten years from now. Probably out when market gets better. Not worried in Sonoma: prices typically hold their own, been there done that over 30 years and even if prices go down, they go right back up: besides I got a bargain since I built this and the others around me.

    Point being: solar WILL be a selling point. I will sell this home for solar install + home sale. NOW I expect dual system will even be more of sale point.

    thanks
     
  10. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2001
    5,516
    Duluth, MN
    Full Name:
    The Meister
    Best bet is to get in touch w/ the manufacturer of the WH you want to abandon.

    Off the top of my head though, I would think the best option is to drain it, blow it out and leave the drain and inlets open so you get a little air flow though it to keep it dry. Unless it gets very humid up there mold or rust shouldn't be a problem if you have some air flow.
     
  11. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran

    good air flow, not damp unless foggy in morn. after a good dry as you say, I could just cap the ends. That may help too.
    thanks
     

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