The official replica/re-creation thread | Page 41 | FerrariChat

The official replica/re-creation thread

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by WILLIAM H, Mar 18, 2004.

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  1. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    No answer yet why the roof on these replicas look bloated? ... Jim's not a short man and he can fit in his ones, so why the need on these replicas?

    Such a pity as to me it really compromises the shape.
    Pete
     
  2. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,294
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    I dunno, Pete :confused: Maybe it's a visual aid to help folks like you tell the difference between real ones and replicas. :p

    You'll note that this Wikipedia image: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ferrari_P.jpg was captioned as David Piper's P4 ....

    .... before I had them correct it. ;)
     
  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Paul,

    You really should make money from all this knowledge/research ...

    It might be to get a safe modern roll bar to fit, I guess ... ?
    Best
    Pete
     
  4. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,294
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    #1004 P4Replica, Mar 4, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,294
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    I guess he would, wouldn't he ? Thanks for the PM. ;)
    Don't let any negative comments about replicas (P4 or other) in the thread worry you. 'Occupational hazard' on this forum. :rolleyes:

    .... and they sure are ! :)
     
  6. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    You know that is not quite true for most members, it is the sacrificing of original Ferraris for replicas that most get upset about.

    But yes there are a couple of "snobs" that just don't accept any replicas :D :D
    Pete
     
  7. redknife

    redknife Rookie

    Jun 1, 2008
    4
    uk
    Full Name:
    jason cooke
  8. seinfeld

    seinfeld Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2004
    748
    Diamond Bar/Cali
    Full Name:
    Gary
    hey! Thanks for the heads up...it really is nice to see a look-alike, though its not a real F-car, I'd still drive it...(who wouldnt?)

    Now, how much, and is it street legal?
     
  9. redknife

    redknife Rookie

    Jun 1, 2008
    4
    uk
    Full Name:
    jason cooke
    Yes they are street legal, and shouldn't be too expensive as they are built in South Africa and the currency is weak at the moment.
     
  10. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
    4,300
    Cape Town, South Afr
    Full Name:
    Jack Verschuur
    I have seen the red one in the flesh, and apart from some minor details think it's an impressive proposal. Last I looked I think their pricing is around 100K USD, without engine/gearbox, but don't pin me down on that.

    The biggest let-down to me were the K&N airfilters mounted on the 400(?) engine. Ususally I run away from anything with those.

    The company also makes a very nice GT40 replica, as well as a 917, but I haven't seen the latter in the flesh.

    Now if they would only make the 250LM...
     
  11. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
    Honorary

    Jul 11, 2004
    1,735
    England
    Full Name:
    Nathan Beehl
  12. redknife

    redknife Rookie

    Jun 1, 2008
    4
    uk
    Full Name:
    jason cooke
    Thanks piloti will check it out.
     
  13. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
    1,448
    UK
    Full Name:
    Will Tomkins
    I just came across this thread and was looking through the pictures and thought just the same thing.
    It's absolutely beyond me why someone would copy one of the most of the most beautiful shapes in the world, put in an a huge amount of work, and then f**k it up by altering it.
    It's not actually a bad shape but it would be SO much better if exact.

    Any answers out there?
     
  14. Sire Bruno de Losckley

    Aug 1, 2006
    1,277

    plus vilain, oui. il y a!
     
  15. jjmcd

    jjmcd Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2004
    490
    Re: board listing replicas. The most interesting would also be the most controversial.

    The obvious fakes (like the Daytona spyder replica) are irrelevant.

    The ¨fantasy cars¨ like the 330GT ¨Vignale¨ mentioned earlier and the various P4 and 250TR esque replicas (often with 246 Dino power) that are reminiscent of the target car but aren´t really replicas because they´re obviously not correct to anyone who knows these cars, should not be controversial. This is particularly the case for the ones that were created using Ferrari engines (like the Dino powered 250TR fantasy cars), but is also true for the ones built up using the chassis of a newer Ferrari (like the 330GT with the fantasy Vignalesque body).

    Where it gets tricky is the 250 PF coupes and 250GTEs that have been rebodied as 250SWBs, 250 GTOs, California Spyders or have Drogo esque bodies, because the chassis and powerplant will be close enough that amateurs (and some purported experts) will be fooled. It also gets tricky where replicas are built up using pieces of an original car. It would not be a good day for me if I paid market price for a 250SWB and discovered that, in fact, it started life as a PF coupe and is actually worth a small fraction of what I paid. (I know that you need to do your due diligence and clear provenance cars are always worth more, but not every genuine car has a clear paper trail back to original sale and a good number of people make acquisitions based on an implicit (or explicit) statement of authenticity from the auction house that may not, in retrospect, turn out to be very valuable). I also wouldn´t be happy if what I bought as a genuine 250LM turns out to be one of two or more cars claiming that particular serial number, perhaps based on each having been built up using some parts of a genuine 250LM that was wrecked back in period. If one of my cars turns out to be a fake, sure I can try to sue the seller but then I need to start a lengthy and expensive litigation process ending with me getting a judgment that I may not be able to collect on.

    Getting back to the chat board point, if one of my cars was unjustly claimed to be a fake, I certainly wouldn´t hesitate to take action against the defamer to defend the value of my investment. However, on balance, I think that more information available in the marketplace is better than less. Hopefully, Ferrari Classiche or some other recognized body will eventually assemble and act as a repository of information about 50s and 60s Ferraris. When you think about it, there really aren´t that many examples of these cars around == maybe 5,000 total? How hard could it really be for an institution with real funding to assemble correct data on each example?
     
  16. vroomgt

    vroomgt Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2004
    2,129
    Brisbane Australia
    Full Name:
    John ARBA
    Yeah, thats why you have put it on the internet!
     
  17. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    Two things have changed since I posted this two years ago. My Cal Spyder 250 California replicar is almost done with some period Ferrari parts included. Secondly my appreciatiopn for Marcel Masinni has improved to the extent that when he posts information on a particular car I print it out and include it with my file on that car as reliable and most probably the final word. I have posted greeting to him on his return from his latest "vacation" from Ferrarichat and can say I have come to greatly appreciate what he has to offer.I am no David Piper when it comes to building replicas but I still thinks there is a place for them when they are done well. just one man's opinion tongascrew
     
  18. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
    900
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Steve Hill
    In California, all you need to do is post a bond for three years on a car without a title, have it inspected by a vehicle verifier, the California Highway Patrol is one such source, and you're good to go. If there are no claims on the car in that time, you have a valid California Certificate of Title for the car. Real or fake. There are some interesting stories around the stunts pulled by the Cobra boys in this regard.

    Steve
     
  19. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
    900
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Steve Hill
    39 GTOs? That would mean three 4 liter GTOs originally built by the factory?

    Steve
     
  20. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
    900
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Steve Hill
    Interesting thread. For arguments sake, to get to Jim's point, if I'm the owner of a car that crashes, burns to the ground, whatever, and have it built back up into the same car it was before the burn, is it a replica, resurrection, or restoration? Some cars require a new chassis. Some a new chassis, body, etc. Still some, as Marcel pointed out earlier, are built around a tach needle. (Ok, an engine and gearbox casing in one car I'm thinking of.) Also, does it matter if the Owner has this work done, or someone purchases the pile of molten metal and does it?

    Steve
     
  21. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Steve

    Just so there's no confusion Ferrari does not dispute that one of my cars is built on the chassis remains of 0846 which I do not dispute that they scrapped but did not destroy.

    In addition the scam that came to light regarding Alabama titled Cobras in California has NOTHING to do with what happened in the case of 0846 which has involved over 100 pages of documents, full legal process, US and Italian Governmental agencies, and a result, that can not be appealed, which is that one of the cars I own, is legally now and forever, 1967 Ferrari P 3/4 chassis 0846 and may forever be registered as such and pass in and out of, and be driven on the roads of, the US and Italy as such.

    Thirdly Resurrection definitionally involves bringing something back to life that is original, NOT replicating something that once was, something that existed but was completely destroyed and ceases to exist. The Bible clearly states whats involved in Resurrecting a Person and the US Courts clearly define what's needed to Resurrect a motor vehicle and in the case of 0846 that includes the majority of it's original chassis, permissibly repaired, but not replicated as part of that process.

    Finally (As per Rob) all debate of 0846 should be debated in the one and only 0846 thread where all of this has been hashed and rehashed many, many times over many, many years.
     
  22. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
    900
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Steve Hill
    My question had nothing to do with 0846. Sorry if I implied it was. It was a more general set of questions. But, to be specific, let's say I was the Owner of a vintage Ferrari and I'm zooming down the highway and I slam into something and my car burns. Burns bad. But, it's my car and I decide to "fix it". The body being aluminum melted to the ground. The steel chassis is still there, but not really usuable. So, I have the company that originally made the chassis make me a new one. I have a body made. And anything else that is needed. It clearly is not an original car. Some may call it a replica. The other scenario was what if I "purchased" the remains from the original Owner and I did the same thing. Would it be viewed the same way as if I were the original Owner when the accident happened? Does it make a difference if I subcontract the work out or it goes to Ferrari? Is it a real car or a replica either way? Would it still be accepted at a Concours event? If it is a race car, could it still run in the Ferrari Historic Challenge?

    Some may say the car is destroyed and written off. Yet, I know of at least one Enzo that went into the factory to be fixed, but the factory chose to build a new car because it was easier for them. And I mean a new car except it used the wrecked cars VIN. The factory still views this as the original Enzo, just fixed. Legally, they would have to if the new Owner wanted to import the "new" Enzo back into the US as there are no 2008 Enzos certified for sale in the US. In theory, if Ferrari were capable, you could pull the same thing with a vintage car.

    Obviously, this is not to be confused with all the replicas of GTOs, SWB Berlinettas, Spyder Californias, P cars, etc. being built.

    Steve
     
  23. t walgamuth

    t walgamuth Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2005
    850
    Well, in the old days the factory did all sorts of things with chassis and serial numbers, didn't they? It is all about pleasing the well heeled customer. They did things to avoid taxes and so forth then and it appears they still are.

    Its a wonder that any of the old racers can have their history unraveled with any degree of certainty.

    Tom W
     
  24. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    In the new days the Factory has done them as well as Steve pointed out.
     

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