308 V12 conversion begins | Page 38 | FerrariChat

308 V12 conversion begins

Discussion in '308/328' started by mk e, Oct 9, 2007.

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  1. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    It might...but it might not, it's hard to know before doing it. It will at compresive loads at the surface but whether or not it will have enough energy to do anything deeper I don't know......but I suspect not.
     
  2. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    Yeah, what he said, "No sweat! I'll zip that out between dinner and putting the little one down for a nap"....................................Holy Cow!:):):)





    ( a moment of astonishment.........)
     
  3. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #928 mk e, Mar 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I don't mean to make it sound trivial, it's a lot of work but it's straight forward work.

    First I cut the ends or the top surface parallel to the crank. The block has a little twist to it on the bottom surface so I shimmed opposite corners to split the difference so when the bottom is cut it will clean up with a minimum of material removed. I didn’t cut the entire top surface because the serial numbers would be removed if I did.

    Next I flipped the block over on to the top surface and indicated in the crank journals within a couple 10 thousandths of an inch end to end and cut the outside flange surfaces parallel with the crank centerline exactly centered between the 2 side. This will let me know exactly where the crank belongs after I weld the journals and can no long use them as a reference.

    Step 3 is weld the journals. I welded ¾-1 inch down the sides to be sure I had enough material. I also removed the cap alignment bushings while it was hot and welded up the top front surface that pulled when I welded the bores.

    Tomorrow I’ll start re-machining. I need to cut the bottom of the block flat, rough cut the journals, machine the bushing hole for oversize bushings (I’ll machine the caps the same way so the caps will fit properly again, the don’t now as the bush locations are sprung out in the block), re-cut the front face. Rough in the cylinder bores. I’ll probably be machining on the block all week and maybe into next week. Then block will be ready to go for finish line bore and decking.
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  4. Protouring442

    Protouring442 F1 Veteran

    Sep 5, 2007
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    This thing has to rank up there as one of, if not, the most difficult engine swaps out there!

    Shiny Side Up!
    Bill
     
  5. jkedino

    jkedino Karting

    Nov 28, 2007
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    Hello

    Just found this "remarkable" thread, spend few hours reading this. Thank you.
    What sort of welding rod and billet material you use for those weldings?

    Juha
     
  6. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Yeah....force fitting the TR heads was probably not one of my better ideas and not far behind re-positioning the engine. The original plan to just put a really big supercharger on a hopped up V8 would have been much easier it turns out, it wouldn't sound as good as this is going to, but it would have been a lot easier.
     
  7. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Juha,
    Thanks.

    I'm using 4043 welding rod and 6061 billet

    Mark
     
  8. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #933 mk e, Mar 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I got the block up on the mill and indictated straight, cut the bottom of the block flat and made he first pass roughing in the journals. I'm doing the journals with a ball mill and trig to get the right radius....kind of a manual CNC. I should have that part finished up tomorrow and then on the cap bushings.
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  9. RVIDRCI

    RVIDRCI Formula 3

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    nice work...
     
  10. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula 3

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    Nice bit of machining work there .Keep it up
     
  11. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I decided that one corner really should have a couple more thousandths removed so I did that...which only let me time to get about 3/4 of the way though the journals. One more night I guess. They're looking good again though. I'm cutting them .005" undersize so the there will be no question that the finish line bore and hone will clean them up nice and straight and round. This kind of stuff is just slow and I'm really wishing I had a power feed so I didn't need to do so much cranking.
     
  12. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    This thing is gonna be kickass where your done Mark. At least it better be, other wise your gonna have to figure out how to slap a blower on it.


    D'OH!!!! :p
     
  13. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    If I can't get this crazy engine to run the fall back plan is a pretty stock 400 or 412 engine with a big blower.....but I think this one will work, I just not sue I'll get 700 hp out of it :)
     
  14. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #939 mk e, Mar 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I finished up the main journals. They are now straight and .005" undersize ready for line bore.

    Next is to bore the bushing hole oversize and in a better location. I'll slip the error between the block and the caps to minimize how far oversize I need to go with the bushings, it looks like +.010" will do it.

    On a couple of the journals the little cut that indexes the bearing got welded in a bit and I need to figure out how to recut it.....I'll need to think about that as my rigth angle head is too big to fit in and I don't want to buy a smaller one, if there is such a thing. Tomorrow I'll check with the shop who will be doing the line bore to see if they can get it easily on there machine before I jump thru any hoops here.
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  15. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Dec 26, 2001
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    TR powertrain....remember, hehehe. Looking forward to seeing the end result with the transverse setup though and hurry up with the timing chain setup!
     
  16. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I was actually just talking about a TR powertrain a couple days ago and saying I’ll bet I could have had that bolted in the car in about 3-4 weekends. It would still need headers, electrical and all that, but it would be in the car…..much easier than this foolishness. I guess the TR powertrain will be the back-up plan if the transaxles go terribly wrong in the coming steps.

    To finish up the timing chain stuff I need to make the new cams I guess…which means I need to decide what I want to do with lift and duration. I’m thinking I’ll have something very similar to the stock intake profile ground on the exhaust and something just plain stupid ground on the intake with .400-.420 lift and whatever duration I need to make the lift work…..260-280 at .050” I’m thinking , but hopefully closer to 260 than 280 since 230 is about the theoretical optimal for 8500 rpm ;)

    I’ll probably work on the cams blanks in the 3-4 weeks the block is away for the finish line bore and deck work, but I’ll have to sell more parts and show Lana the money before she will let me send them out to be ground...she keeps avery close eye on the spending :(
     
  17. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Veteran
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    Don't worry....Lana is not the only one! ;)

    Everything is looking beautiful. I wish I had your talents! Unfortunately, I was not interested in 'shop' in high school. Now I LOVE to work on my car and wish I had been more interested.

    JIM
     
  18. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I took some machining classes at the local community college years ago becasue I wanted to make parts for my race motorcycle and didn't know how. Then after I learned how to make stuff I realized I didn't know what to make and had to go to engineering school :)
     
  19. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    She knows if there's extra cash hanging around, then there's going to be new patio, ss grill, shrubs, plants in real vases not the cheap plastic ones and whatever else wives want. :D
     
  20. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    We've already got a new patio, ss grill, shrubs, plants in real vases not the cheap plastic ones and a pool to go with it....but she tells me that stuff was all for me, so now I owe her new furniture for inside....which as soon as we buy it becomes "for us" and I still owe her :)
     
  21. duskybird

    duskybird F1 World Champ
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    Ahhh yes, wife logic!
     
  22. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

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    Twenty years ago you'd be considered some loser with dirty fingernails, if you did this two years ago and screamed at your wife and kids they would give you your own tv show and make you a star!

    Hell, now that I think about it you already have a pretty decent audience. Somebody should be sponsoring this.
     
  23. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    That's what I'm talking about :D

    "and note that I only use genuine WD-40 brand oil for this operation......" :D
     
  24. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I was thinking I'd have to call in a favor to make the cam blanks since they really would fit on my lather and with no digital readout it would be a real pain anyway....but I just realized I can make them on the mill with the rotary head and a center. Except for the cam sprocket flange all the diameters are just rough cuts that will be finished by the cam grinder. That will save me a favor in the shop :)
     
  25. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

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    Laying the blank parralell to the table with one end in a rotary head and the other end in a center and using an end mill while turning the rotary head? If so that horizontal attachment might work well for that?
     

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