Any Mechanics?

More importantly, who's the girl in the avatar??

 

A statement like that does not deserve a response. Obviously made by an uninformed idiot (all luxury cars have "proprietary parts" that are expensive to replace). Depreciation on newer cars is no surprise, Ferraris are much better than most due to the short supply.

Just walk away from it.

 

These comments are absurd and childlike. It's kinda like a guy who drives a Chevy Pickup saying Fords are a piece of crap. Basically pretty much the same. People who own other sports cars will generally put down most other types that they don't own. Who cares anyway? I like old Cistalia, Osca,and Maserati even though I will probably never own one.

 

Tell him that apostrophes at the ends of nouns are used to show possession, and that it is incorrect to use one when pluralizing a noun. The fact that the noun ends in a vowel has no bearing on it -- no apostrophe in Ferraris. That should be enough to confuse him (and a ton of people on this forum) for a while.

 

Ferrari engines are reflections of some of the highest technology of whatever era they were made. This makes them complicated and require more maintenance than an over engineered, low revving Honda Accord engine (which BTW can be hopped up to be just as powerful and maintenance needy as a Ferrari). Take a 1979 308 engine. Four carbs, two ignition systems, belt driven DOHC engine. Of course a pushrod Vette with a single 4 barrel carb will be more reliable and cheaper to own, but it's a pushrod Vette.

Today's Ferrari engines have more complexity than I even know about. I am under the impression they are also more reliable than the cars of the past, but if something goes wrong with your 2008 BMW, it's not going to be cheap to fix either. Who ever whines about Ferrari reliability ought to buy an old Lotus sometime.

Ken

 

Perfect!

Mike in Kuwait

 

Was she a dancer at the Wild Orchid?

 

Heck you don't need any help. What you said above is fine.

But coming from me (I know a few things about the mechanicals of our cars) in whole they are not poorly constructed. There have been a few items that were not perfectly executed (all manufactures have that) but nothing that would give Ferrari a bad name. I have no idea where he would have gotten the impression that Ferrari had a poor name to begin with.

With that said a Ferrari can require more maintenance than say his trusty Toyota (or insert favorite commuter car brand here). That is simply because Ferrari's are machines with exacting tolerances and specifications that must be adhered to. When you use such a machine in a manner to which it was designed for (read: drive it well) the tolerances can & will change. At that point a service visit (or adjustment) would be required. That may be the reason why he thinks they "break down" when actually they are just in for service.

Who really knows what he thinks. And actually, who really minds if he speaks his uneducated opinion. Most will know that he is incorrect anyhow. He is not changing many peoples perception with that retort I can tell you.

 

Ferrari makes the engine, some parts of the transmission, the frame, the body panels, and some interior pieces.

The rest of each Ferrari is 3rd party, such as Bosch Motronic engine computers, Veglia gauges, Nippondenso or Delco starter motors, Bosch fuel pumps, Momo steering wheels, SKF bearings, A&P clutches, steering columns, airbags/sensors, AC compressors, Hela headlights, Koni shocks/springs, Speedline wheels, Pirelli tires, etc.

The 3rd party parts above are the same/interchangeable with 95+% of the entire automotive world. There's a Ford Focus gas strut that will open your Ferrari 348 trunk, for instance. There's a VW heater control valve that can replace the HCV on 355's.

So "quality" on all of the 3rd party parts/areas is equal across car brands from Acura to Ferrari to Volkswagen.

Ferrari body panels, frames, and interiors wear rather well compared to the leather and iron of other makes.

This leaves "quality" differences between makes of cars to engine/tranny and electrical connections...and quite frankly Ferrari engines might die from over-revving while you are racing about (especially if not maintained, e.g. belt service) but you seldom hear of one just wearing out from over-use.

It's true that Ferrari could do a better job with quality control on its transmission assembly and electrical connections, though.

But overall it's a Ferrari. It's meant for high rev driving and it delivers. Break something on it...no big deal, just go fix it so that you can drive again. Sure, it's not over-engineered with lots of extra weight so as to handle abuse, but that's one of the compromises that you make when you are choosing to "go fast" instead of "go long."

If it puts a smile on your face, gets your woman hot, turns you on, and makes you think about wanting to go for a drive when you are doing other things, then it is delivering something that few cars can manage.


And life's too short to live in mundane boredom.

 

tell him and his butt buddy to get in their corvette and go home.

 

When a Ferrari is 10 years old, it's still a Ferrari.
When a Corvette is 10 years old, it's a 10 year old used Chevy.

 

Even the frames are 3rd party. Alcoa makes them for Ferrari.

 

I would say that Ferrari's are very good at their designed goal - to be excellant track cars.

If you take this point of view, you will see that pretty much all other cars (all cars, not just sports cars) are "pieces of crap" with the same qualifications. Start hard lapping a minivan, or econobox...anybodyies minivan or econobox and see what the service/repair interval starts to look like. You will also find that the repair bills stack up quickly as the manufacturer's warranty won't cover you if they know what you are doing with the car. I am not saying the costs will be the same or even close (you have to remember the disparities in production scale and it's effect on per unit cost), but it would be very expensive to make a Camry a weekend track car, plus you would lose consistantly and badly...ie..."it's a piece of crap" . Meanwhile the Ferrari (while still expensive), is winning consistantly.

As for the other, more affordable players in the sports car community (Porsche, Lotus, Corvette, Lambo, etc), they each have their own flavor and experience, but Ferrari holds it position in the market for a reason. Also, more affordable, is "more" affordable, not cheap. Price a set of Goodyear Runflats for a Corvette, and you will see that, it is right up there, if not beyond, Ferrari tire territory. While that is an atypical example on the vettes, it is a fact of ownership for the C5/C6.

 

No Doubt makes a good point that Ferrari probably uses fewer proprietary parts than most automakers.

The "pieces of crap" comment probably means the person quoted is fairly young and hasn't owned one. But it's also true that a Ferrari demands more maintenance than the average sports car, and that the modern car buyer is accustomed to a disposable economy -- not one in which you care for your equipment and take pride in keeping it in top shape. There's a reason Lexus and Acura have taken root and done well: they make ideal drive-and-forget-it appliances. To many people, a car that demands that you open the bonnet during your ownership is a "demanding piece of crap". To me, the engine bay is fascinating, and whenever I show the car to someone I make it a point to display the engine.

As far as value retention, the poster is partially right with regard to the GT cars (456/550/575/599/612), which are a poor bet to retain value, but wrong when it comes to the sports cars (price out an '84 Boxer or an '86 328 -- both are near or well above sticker price in nice condition.)

He is correct, for the most part, about parts being expensive. OTOH, I don't think he's going to win a Nobel Prize for this not-so-penetrating insight. What I think is much more interesting are the parts costs on some of the modern German cars that he might call well-built: I've had MB, BMW and now Audi, and for "everyday" cars the proprietary parts prices can be pretty daunting -- and don't try to run down to the local parts store for spares.

 

Lamborghini is hard to describe as one car company. In terms of reliability, you could call the Miura/Countach "crap" in the sense that they have some fundamental design flaws and often cannot be serviced economically (a clutch job on a Countach makes a Ferrari major service look like a bargain.) OTOH, those cars have retained value well -- the Miura incredibly well, to the point where they're chasing $1M and are major collectibles now.

Then there's the New Lambo (Audi), which seems to have up'ed the build quality and rationalized the parts somewhat.

In any event, I wouldn't call Lambo "more affordable" than Ferrari. I'd put them on the same price level.

And I wouldn't put Corvette in the same "affordability" league as Porsche, Lotus, Lambo or Ferrari. Apart from tires, which are priced by the tire manufacturer, your wallet will be quite safe at the Chevy dealer. The cars are mass produced to the point where costs are low, and a front-engined car is inherently easier to service than the exotics (often mid-engined) or the rear- and mid-engined Porsches.

 

The last Chevy dealer I rode past was pushing Nitrogen, the current snake oil. My brother is an airline pilot so spare me those arguments .

Lamborghini, yes, is another beast. But, s h i t e, the Miura is one of the most beautiful cars ever built.

 

+1000

Is it me or is there an epidemic of incorrect use of apostrophe's everywhere?

 

Fair enough!

The vettes are certainly cheaper to maintain, no argument there, that is why I added the "atypical" comment. However, the vette community is more prone to having to deal with "Bubba fixes" which can be hidden on the older used cars and while certainly not "exotic" expensive, can cause a much larger financial headache than one expects when owning/repairing a "chevy". Plus, taking a 20+ year old corvette to a Chevy dealer simply means that you will charged the hourly rate for as many hours as it takes their tech to expiriment and stumble upon a solution as Dealer techs (at least in my area) only know the current cars.

 

I'm a part time mechanic, but not at Ferrari, I work in a local shop when I am not in school. A guy I work with had a boss who owned a Ferrari, the guy I work with says that Ferrari's are "a piece of crap" as well. The funny part is his boss loved it, so do you see where I am going with this? The people who think Ferrari's are crap, are the ones who don't own them and are jealous. The ones who do own them, love them and put up with certain parts going bad. My 2.5L Sentra has more problems than most supercars do. Wether it be the timing chain tensioner or god knows what, that little 4 cylinder is the most tempermental car ever.

 

chasing $500k more like.

 

An SV sold over 600k a few months back and an LP400 right hand drive sold for over 500k also...

 

that would be more like 500k than 1m. most others sell in the 300-500k range. thanks for the data.

 

I like that one. Will keep it filed away for future use.