Ferrari Name Factor

Theres Bugatti but they are way too expensive, even by Ferrari standards

Then there is Aston Martin which comes close, but a lot of people dont know what an AM is

 

The only cars that have are reasonably close to Ferrari are Porsche, Lambo, Corvette, Rolls, and Bentley. These 5 combined still don't equal Ferrari though.

 

People won't spend Ferrari money on a Nissan.

That's been proven by the NSX and the Z06. Both fine cars in themselves, but not part of the marque history

 

There is no marque like Ferrari. It seems like the younger set puts Lamborghini in the same class, but of course Lambo has no racing pedigree whatsoever, and has made some honestly putrid looking cars over the years. Then you have Bob Norwood who terms Lamborghini "nothing but a glorifed kit car."

Ferrari is the standard by which all other sports cars are measured.

 

I think it's the way the rrrrrs roll off the tongue.....it just sounds cool!

Other than that, aesthetically, Ferrari is losing its pizzaz in IMHO.

 

Theoretical question based on non-reality, but I'll take a stab at it. The closest ting Nissan has to a vehicle even worth bringin up is The Nissan GTR that will be hitting our shores soon will list for just under 80K. There will be a hefty mark up for the first year. Let's say it'll be a 25K mark up (my opinion).........So you have a 100K plus Nissan and a 200K plus F430. Here's how I see it.....

1) Looks Better? The GTR is an ugly car, no way around it.
2) Sounds Better? It sounds like a Z350 on Steroids (oh yeah, it is a Z350 on Steroids!)
3) Technologically Superior? I don't think so, but I will give it props for spanking a 997 Turbo on the track
4) Priced Competitively? No one will pay 200K for a Nissan EVER!
5) Faster? In what way? 0-60? Top speed? 0-60 the Nissan is 3.5 seconds and the 430 is 3.9 seconds (If your 14 yrs old then this is an issue)
6) Handles Better? I'll bet ya that the Nissan is boring as hell after a week of driving. It is a tool for going fast, not a soulful piece of rolling art with a pedigree in Racing that goes back half a century. Handling is very subjective. Lap times around a track are a great measure of lap times around a track, not the way a car makes you feel when you drive it.

The Name Factor is a factor for a reason. I never understood it until I drove a Ferrari for the first time. It's not really something that can be written about. It's just different than anything else in the automotive universe. Im not knocking Nissan or any other Marquee. Im just stating my truth.....and that of many other of my Ferrari brothers too
Your truly,
The Ape

 

The Ferrari brand has always been regarded as a high marque from as long as I can remember. Seeing my dad and uncle tool around and drive with their F-Cars when I was little (in Manila and L.A.) was such a wonderful and unforgettable memory for me. I have been extremely lucky to be introduced and exposed to cars such as the 308GT4's (my uncle's) and the 308GTS' (my dad's) at a very young age. Even if Ferrari were to mass produce certain cars (like the rumored neo "Dino"), I think that the mystique behind the red fascia with the yellow bar stamped with the prancing horse will never be equaled!

 

James, problem is Nissan makes Sentras, Xterras and Maximas: you'd have to drive with your eyes closed not to see a Nissan on a 1/2-mile jaunt. It's pretty much the same discussion we have every week on this board about Chevy (Corvette) and Honda (NSX).

As far as "the awe", I think you could remove the badges from a 328 or 355, for example, and people would still know it was something out of the ordinary. There just aren't any other marques that produce cars with those kinds of curves, and incur so much expense to do so. People on here regularly compliment the NSX, Corvette C6, Audi R8, etc., but I've seen all those cars up close and, while they're very nice, and look "right", the Italians just have a sense of design that the others don't. Even the stuff that looks flat and simple -- like the rear decklid on a 308/328 -- is remarkably complex when you study it and echoes the fender line.

The 355 is a good example, because there's nothing outstanding about the design if you simply list the features. But put it next to a another mid-engined sports car like the Toyota MR2, especially a first-generation MR2, and somehow the Italians got all the proportions right (the car hunkers and flows over the wheels) while the Japanese car seems plopped on top of a chassis. Ditto the NSX -- somehow the engineers took the artistic stuff and did the final edits, and you can tell. The Audi R8 is a handsome car, and I would like to have one in my garage. But in terms of design purity it, too, lacks the impact of a 355 or 328. Drama in design is hard to achieve, and it contributes to the "awe" factor, even for some of Ferrari's less-great recent cars.

In short, please show me a Japanese car that 90 percent of a random sample of people think looks better than a Ferrari.

(I recall seeing a Mondial darting about our neighborhood a few times, maybe 5-6 years back. It was red. And the guy drove it in a sea of silver and grey Honda Accords, white SUVs and all the other automotive flotsam. I admit I don't swoon over Mondials, but put it in normal traffic and it looks like Uma Thurman at a Jenny Craig clinic...)

Some of the other factors:

Heritage -- This gets disparaged a lot among the NSX/Z-Car/Corvette faithful, but the truth is Enzo Ferrari built his company during the golden era of motorsports. It's about as authentic as you can get. Enzo even started his career racing for Alfa, before founding his own racing team (Scuderia Ferrari) after the war. It's near impossible to own one of these cars, especially an older one, without subscribing to a Ferrari-related magazine or two, or watching specials on Speed Channel or National Geographic. You feel like you've got a part of an amazing story sitting in your garage.

The real question is what Mr. Nissan or Mr. Acura were doing during and after the war...

Rarity -- as mentioned above. Porsche was producing 3000-5000 cars a year in the early 1970s. Even "common" Ferraris like the 308 were produced at a rate of ~1200/year ten years later. And, the buyers as often as not were guys like Steve McQueen, Paul Newman, Miles Davis -- celebrities. Ferraris are automotive celebs, and we all react to them as such.

Engine -- Explaining the difference to someone who hasn't driven one is next to impossible, but as far as I know the flat-plane crankshaft design is rare on road cars, and the noise a Ferrari engine makes really is something else. I'm not even a 'louder-is-better' guy, and thought the first 328 I drove was too loud. Now, frankly, it's part of the "awe" of the mechanicals and puts me in touch with my inner gearhead.

The problem, IMO, is that Nissan, Chevy, Honda and others are competing with Ferrari on technology. And it just doesn't work. One analogy, and probably a bad one now that I'm writing it, would be dining out. We all pay willingly for setting, ambiance, presentation, reputation and service. If you price it based on calories per dollar, you're going to come out better at The Olive Garden in the strip mall than at Trattoria Acqua in San Diego. Your question seems to me to be asking what The Olive Garden could do to its food to have me hold it in the same regard as I do the upscale restaurant overlooking La Jolla Cove on the Pacific.

You don't get prestige through calories -- or horsepower. It's something that comes over a generation. I guess the answer is that you don't get "prestige and wow" (or shock and awe?) by starting with mass production and trying to add in exotic touches.

 

This is a pointless thread and will go nowhere.

 

I really respect Jay Leno as a collector and an enthusiast. He drives his Audi R8 daily and calls it "the perfect car". The R8 does it all very, very well. Remember, he owns anything he wants. Personally, in this economic climate, the last thing I want to be seen in is a Ferrari.

 

I haven't been here that long and this question has been asked time and again in one form or another CH is right it will go nowhere.....

 

Anyone - establishment or individual - can fabricate a believable reputation for a short period of time. But Ferrari established, and has maintained, their reputation for over half of a century. It's not the badge that gives Ferrari its prestige; it's the experience. The awe and mystique are as long-standing as the marque's existence. There was a time when Ferrari's weren't owned by every wealthy individual individual in the world, and weren't sought after by every kid who saw one. There was a time when Ferraris collected dust in showrooms. But to the few who knew Ferrari at those times - I mean really knew Ferrari intimately - Ferrari has always been legendary. That's because Ferrari's awe and mystique come from the experience a Ferrari yields. Owners who buy Ferraris and promptly velvet rope them in their garages will never know that mystique.

 

Hmm? I dont get it. Im not busting your Balls either. Just curious why it matters what other people think of you?

 

+1. I don't understand either.

 

Does Ricambi sell the velvet rope? I'm having a hard time sourcing it.

With regard to your other point, I think you're right that a lot of the awe/mystique came from the era when you really had to be a Somebody to have one of the dozen or so examples of a given model. Now they're much more attainable, which is both good and bad. The '70s and '80s were the end of the workshop/Enzo era, when there were enough cars to drive but few enough that ownership was more fantasy than reality.

Your quote about "fabricating a believable reputation for a short period of time" is an astute one. In the field of watchmaking, it's analogous to Rolex, Jaeger LeCoultre, Patek Phillipe and others: it's probably next to impossible to launch a new watchmaker and spend your way to the top of the reputation heap.

But ultimately the most important point is that getting behind the wheel of a Daytona, or 308/328, or F40, is still a raw and 'awe'-some experience. The reputation wouldn't mean much if the cars didn't still deliver that adrenaline rush.

 

Based on actions taken by Ferrari Spa and FNA in recent years, I'm afraid that the name Ferrari is becoming synonymous with arrogance and greed, at least in the USA.

Dale

PS And, yes, I own and drive a Ferrari.

 

we'va always had that problem w the stereotypes about us. you know the small penez, mid life crisis etc

The Audi R8 may not b the best looking thing in the world but that concept w the V12 twin turbo diesel is VERY impressive, especially from the Co that now dominates LeMans

 

It's kinda like the wine taste test they had not long ago, where they put the same wine in all the glasses and had a bunch of wine aficionados do the tasting.

They parked each glass in front of different bottles and had the prices shown on the bottles...

and the people tasting them all thought the more expensive wines were better, even tho was ALL the same stuff.....

The moral is that if it makes you feel better then it it's probably worth it to you...... but that may not be the reality...

 

The "same stuff" analogy doesn't work here.

Stick a Ferrari drivetrain in any chassis made and anyone with seat time in a Ferrari could pick it out of the lineup of similar-looking cars with a turn of the key. There are objective differences.

 

Ironically, I think the people who know next to nothing about Ferrari have embraced the marque like Gucci etc

its disgusting but it is what it is

AM, Corvette, Audi, dont come close

as far as marketing its wares Harley Davidson is # 1 , followed by Porsche, and now F has discovered the power of marketing

 

I was going to disagree with one of your statements, but I kept reading and it's not often that anything I say is ever referred to as 'astute', so I'm just gonna shut and say thanks.

Thanks.

 

I'm gonna stick with what was mentioned before, Ferrari is what all other makes try and compair themselves to, that in itself says it all.

Cheers!

 

Keep in that I wasn't talking about the public's perception of Ferraris and Ferrari owners. Sadly, I was talking about the perception of car guys who are not NWBs (New World Billionaires). I don't know about you, but I'm NOT feeling any love coming from Maranello or New Jersey.

Dale

 

I would tend to agree,with one exception. Ferrari, Bugatti, Porsche and Lamborghini names all come from one man's name. I think this is what makes them so special.

Even though they are all dead, it was the idea of one guy. Your driving what that person thought was the ultimate car. Lotus used to be in there too, but I think the heritage is now gone there.

I think Ferrari is slowly loosing Enzo's heritage, the young kids dont know who he was, cant relate, and like many "genious" people he was deeply flawed, but that is what makes him so interesting.

Bugatti was the pree Ferrari maestro, after the war Enzo took that job. Porsche family which is still going strong, never had a real personal presence. Ferdianand the 1st. was a bit of a character, but will always bee associated with Hitler, the VW and all that...So I think that is why they held such a low profile... Enzo Ferrari and his cars just have that mistery about them... he did not care if you bought it, if you did you took it the way they made it.. unless you were the Shaw of Iran, King of Belgium, or some other high profile person, you might get a one off built... that was how he was, where as all the others had a definate business ethic to them, he simply made something that others wanted so he kept on making them... he even said you're crazy for buying the cars, but hey I'll take your money!

So for me that is what Ferrari is all about. The modern cars 348 and on have less and less of that traditional soul, the new ones don't have any link except the badge and the price. Today Ferrari are at the cutting edge, when Enzo was around they were NEVER at the cutting edge, but just made a pretty car, that went fast and handled pretty good... above all else they were realatively reliable and could take a lot of punishment... I think that is the difference. God you can tell I'm getting old!