If you need some lessons, go to a track. You're certainly not understanding it from watching racing on the TV!
In Massas defense (I know, I know) I have done the same - when stuck behind someone on the track who was being a ba$tard about letting me by, I have sometimes forced the issue and relied on the other guy losing the game of chicken that I just started. I dont necessarily blame Massa for giving it a shot - lots of drivers do it throughout the season... I just think the responsibility lies with Massa for forcing the issue, and not DC for not letting him get away with it. ...and I would expect more from Massa who was in the much faster car. And by "expect more", I mean be able to make the pass without doing it in such a sloppy manner. Sure, Sato trying to get around Button I can see him doing that. Massa? I expect more (well, I expect more from a Ferrari guy at least).
It's easy to understand, but sadly you can't seem to grasp that it is not the point. Didn't you just say that? The video isn't "blindingly obvious", which is in itself blindingly obvious, but it does offer a reasonable perspective. You simply don't grasp the point we are trying to make as you don't understand the accepted protocols of racing and passing. You've exhibited this misunderstanding numerous times. Albeit in the lower classes of open wheel formula car racing, I have raced, and beaten, former Indy car and Formula One drivers. How about you?
Mike, lucky your a fast typist. You have your work cut out here for sure..I can't believe this stuff I thought this was a racing and tracking forum , the contents of my hankerchief make more sense than some post's on here..:
Interesting thread. IMO , Massa was to the level where you either let him pass or you are going to crash . They both took a chance, albeit Coulthard was always going to lose .
So the fact that Massa was behind DC is not the point... errr sure chief Yes, thats the point - Massa was behind DC - glad you finally grok'ed it. Yes the video is blindingly obvious. Very obviously Massa was off line, and very obviously he only ever got *at most* halfway up DC's car. Halfway could be a pass, but he got that far for a split second, while OFF line, in a bad position to make a pass, and relying no DC's charity to let him by - which DC didn't do. Mistake = Massa. No, you have failed to understand the points I was putting forth. You demonstrated this with your previous post where you said "he doesn't need to be in front to make the pass" - when I never once suggested such. You are responding to points I never made - the failure to understand is yours alone. LOL - ok tell us about the F1 racers who you've beaten on track in real races? I am just DYING to hear about this!
Are you sure about that...... Massa was in front of him but on the inside which meant he needed to brake harder to hold the line, allowing DC to move back up. Had DC not decided to turn-in, he would have exited the turn back in front of Massa. I’m not a real big Massa fan, but it was a clean move. To all...you guys should spend some time actually racing…in a race BEFROE you spend any more time posting nonsense Image Unavailable, Please Login
Maybe you could step into the mix and offer to coach DC? With your experience being faster on track than professional F1 drivers, your experience would be invaluable! Hey, how come you're not a paid race driver? If you're better than the F1 guys as you claim, surely there would be people clamoring to pay for your skills?
hard to tell from that angle - yep he looks like more than 1/2 way from that shot, although that angle exaggerates his position on track. The in-car pic posted earlier looks to be frmo about the same position and Massa is 1/2 way up DC's car at most. It was a clean move from the standpoint of not being something FM deserves a penalty over - I agree 100%. It was not a clean move in that he made a clean pass on DC - he forced the issue (after being stuck behind for a while and being unable to make anything happen). DC isn't a guy that gets forced easily, and he proved it on Sunday to both their detriment. I dont understand why the argument seems to always descend into "you dont know what you are talking about". We have one chump on here now telling us how he beats F1 drivers in the races he does - like that is legit or somehow makes him right - the pics speak for themselves. Racing incident where no penalty is due, but a racing insident caused by Massa and the responsibility lies mostly with him (70/30 as I said earlier).
Massa was never going to make that pass stick, but it only ended in a crash because DC chose to end it that way. Massa is a fast driver but he's not a great racer becasue he does stuff that can only fail while costing him a couple seconds on the lap. Passing is frickin hard to do in any racing and always comes with risk.....but the greats make it look easy.
Sorry Mark but that photo doesn't show that Massa was in front of DC. Take a look at the angle the camera was at. If the camera was shooting 90deg (beside them) we'd see that Massa's front wheel is just behind DC's. If you take a look at the photo you've posted you can see Massa's left front tire is slightly behind DC's. Given the angle the photo was taken at that would put his tire/wheel behind DC's. It's a bit of an optical illusion you're seeing. IMO fault for this incident is 55% Massa 45% DC but Massa certainly came out the worse for the move. Yes he got the position and continued on but, as I have raced (Shifter Karts and FF also crewed many other race cars) I know what goes around comes around. FWIW I like DC. He says what he means and he sticks to his word and although I don't rate Massa's abilities I certainly had liked his personality. Now even that's wearing thin. I'll be all too happy to see him go from the team.
I will go with that..The fact I put the blame percentage a little closer than Mike.. However you cannot deny the fact as a (Ferrari driver Spotlight on you) you can't bulldoze your way round the track.
It's one thing for us to disagree and call each other out on opinions, but quite another to insinuate I am lying. That makes you a disrespectful *******. If you want to pm me I will be happy to inform you, but I am not here to try and live vicariously through past exploits on FChat.
So fist you insinuate I am liar, and in this post you call me a chump? You don't deserve to be banned for your self-righteous know-it-all attitude about anything and everything on FChat, but you sure do for this.
That's right. You see anyone whose opinion matters in F1 screaming bloody murder or calling for penalties? Your makeup is starting to crack.
Scott, chill Mike means no offence me neither I race, I see it one way you see it another no big deal..Mr Speed?/(joke)..
LOL! So let me sum it up then.... "You should all listen to me because I have raced and beaten F1 drivers, I just can't tell you who they were". What, did you push Jackie Stewart out of the way in the buffet line at a vintage race? Sorry, no credibility.
Who'se calling for penalties? I don't think the incident is that big a deal - it's a racing incident, caused and precipated by Massa. Just about every incident is someone's fault - this one was Massas. He doesn't need any penalties for it, nor does he deserve one. DC will probably set him straight, and once he gets some more talent (maybe after Teak agrees to instruct him!) he will be able to make more clean passes and not cause accidents At my age, it takes spackle, son!
Thanks for the backup my friend but in honesty I do think he's a chump If he's that offended, well, he needs to develop thicker skin, especially if he wants to lord over folk in the racing section using his "track record of beating F1 drivers" as his credentials and then scurry awak like a roach when the lights turn on. Scott, in all seriousness, sorry if you are offended. I don't consider "chump" to be a major insult to someone. If you take serious offense, then my apologies. However, when you want to tell folks that you are right and they are wrong, and there is no discussion because you are more learned, more experienced, more worthy to comment based on your history of beating F1 drivers.... well, expect to get called on it.
I don't understand your need to be so patently offensive. I simply responded, and now wish I hadn't, to this baited statement of yours: With this: I didn't say I had raced with Senna or Mears, but I stand by my statement, and I said you could pm me for details (anyone else can too for that matter). Instead, you chose to ignore that and resort again to name calling and the insinuation that I am lying. Poor form on your part, but that seems to be your M.O. in many threads. In fact you were the one that did the baiting as I showed above, and I am much more offended by the lying insinuation than I am the name calling. Your apology is as weak as your social skills.
