While a man's word is bond, time and experience has shown it would be very wise to provide some sort of documentation/proof. No reason to put yourself in the crosshairs, when nipping it in the bud will not only restore, but enhance credibility amongst those who, as we've already seen, initially doubt the stated claims. Otherwise, it'll get ugly, fast, as the pile-up builds. After all, are we not reasonable go-karters?
That's the rule in every road racing series on earth. It's the only possible rule, if you look at it logically. The fact the you don't know this doesn't do much for your claim of being an experienced racer. I didnt find these in the bin, friend: Image Unavailable, Please Login
OK Wax (By the way, you never answered Surf Wax or Wax Tracks?). I got a respectful request for info from another FChatter. I will just post what I messaged to him: Hi Andreas, The only guy I remember to be in F1 was Jacques Villenueve. Not the world champion, but his uncle! I know he tested for Arrows and another F1 team but I don't remember how he did, not so good in F1. I don't know if he even qualified. He was not the personality his brother Gilles was, but was a great driver, his brother's death caused a lot of pain for him I know. I remember he was Formula Atlantic champion and won a Champ car or Cart race too. He and I and Jon Beekhuis (I think that is how you spell it) won enough races with British School of Motor Racing to be invited to a Formula Ford competition in England with 30 or 40 guys from all continents. It involved lots of things besides just driving (interviews, willing to stay in England to race, etc. Like a fool I wanted to go home and get married! Well, I got divorced too!) Jon and I were from the USA and Villenueve from Canada. I tied for second with Villenueve behind Jon. The thing was, I raced Jon several times before the competition and beat him every time! I think Villenueve was actually the fastest of the three of us, he should have won first in the competition but I think already had a ride lined up somewhere. I also raced with Buddy Lazier later in a semi pro series. I think he won an Indy 500? Ha ha, I should look that up! Another guy I remember was Richard Spenard, a French Canadian. He was a fantastic race driver. Better than Villenueve or Beekhuis. I really think as good as Sebastien Bordais. He just never got the right break and never won anything that I know of. Some of the best drivers, I think people have never heard of! Scott
Villeneuve would have done ok had he been with a decent F1 team for the 2 races he tried to qualify, he was not anything in talent like Gilles but a damn good driver who actually won a CART Race in the Mid 80's. Spenard was another very good driver that actually taught JV (the son) how to race a car. If you raced those guys and did well, then hats off to you. I started this thread and I think it is going a bit too far now, perhaps a Mod will want to close it.
Nice edit! Senna caught the original though... Next time you want to toss names around there's no need to fish for people to call out your "racing credentials", so you can come back with "I beat F1 drivers!" comments - just say it. Catch ya later chum....... ...p
Can someone make a poll about whether or not Massa was at fall, it will certainly be interesting to see the distrubition of FChatters for or against the Massassinator
What gift? Stepneygate aside it STILL would have been WCC for Ferrari by 1 pt. So how did he blow it?
Well, there was the race where Mac was docked WCC points for not "declaring" their new tranny or whatever it was. I think the estimates of whether Mac would have won rely on those points still having being taken... and arguably the FIA/stewards were a lot harsher on Mac for that transgression since they had just "gotten away with it" at the FIA court of appeal re: Stepneygate.
You post that rule for me, from the F1 sporting regs, and I will buy you a steak dinner to go with your karting trophies.....
And then there was that mess up with Ferrari not being informed of the tyre change order pre-race (forgot which race it was). You know we can go on like this quite some time... PS Don't remember the tranny incident, only the Alonso-Hamilton quali at Hungary. Do you remember which race that was?
As many have indicated, half way or more it's your corner - as I'm sure you know. While this is a general rule, in this case, there is no freaking doubt that Massa was already inside and had the line. You can download the clip I uploaded and step through it frame by frame.
Scot, There is no defined passing rule in the FIA regulations, or SCCA for that matter. In some other lower classes there are references to relative location of cars. NASA is a racing organiztion with a class that has a heading here on FChat "NASA Race Series for Ferraris". They have a reference to "Punting" or side of nose to side of tail bumping in their regulations. It says "Once the trailing car has it's front wheel next to the driver of the other, it is considered that the trailing car has the right to be there. And that the leading driver must leave the trailing driver "enough racing room". Which makes statements like this: look as blockheaded as they are, because you simply don't have to be "in front of" the car being passed to establish your position...ridiculous. What Supreme Court Justice Potter said about pornography is that he would not try to "further define it" but "I'll know it when I see it." It is the same with regard to passing in racing, contrary to some know-it-alls on this thread who are certain they can absolutely define it, although it can be considered a generally accepted rule amongst those with experience that if you are halfway up on the driver being passed he must give way. Those without experience, or at least lacking in it will say things to the contrary of course: "Halfway point" indeed. Most likely SRTMike will defend his manhood and make another self-assured comment and dig his "hole" deeper. Perhaps he should call the Speed Channel's David Hobbs and explain to him why his insistence that Coulthard was to blame is all wrong, because Massa wasn't "in front" of him. As for me, I am done with this thread. Thanks for listening.
From Appendix L of the FIA international Sporting Code No rule, eh? That looks like a rule to me, and it says exactly what I did. The driver in the lead can drive on any part of the track he wishes, so long as he makes no ABNORMAL CHANGE OF DIRECTION. Driving your normal line is NOT ABNORMAL. Luckily for you I have higher standards about whom I eat with. Feel free to make a charitable donation instead. From the 2008 SCCA GCR: Again, a rule. And again, exactly what I said. I didn't go make this stuff up. First off, a series where drivers are more concerned with scratching their cars than racing is not a good place to look for examples, but even so, this: THAT IS NOT WHAT IT SAYS! Allowing a driver "racing room" does not mean you have to "give way." And that is the crux of the problem. You think DC should have "given way" to Massa. WRONG. Massa was not ahead, and should have allowed for the fact that DC was going to take his NORMAL line, AS HE WAS ENTITLED TO DO. Expecting the leading car to drive off line to accomodate the car behind is absurd, as this rule from yet another organisation clearly states: http://www.britauto.net/motorsportrules.html I could go on quoting regs all day. Fact is, there ARE rules for overtaking, and they ARE NOT what you seem to think they are.
Crashing into another driver is. >THAT IS NOT WHAT IT SAYS! Allowing a driver "racing room" does not mean you have to "give way." And that is the crux of the problem. >You think DC should have "given way" to >Massa. WRONG. Massa was not ahead Give room means, at minimum, not crashing into the passing car. >I could go on quoting regs all day. Fact is, there ARE rules for overtaking, and they ARE NOT what you seem to think they are.[/QUOTE] There is abs. _nothing_ in what you have posted that contradicts what he has said. Again -- if you find the rule that states one must be level or in front to pass I'll up his dinner offer to 1000x. A very sincere good luck. ps: if you're going to back up your simply crazy claims do so with with relevant data, not some obscure series that bears 0 relevance to f1.
No offense, but if you think this rule about being level or ahead exists, you're very much deluding yorself. There is no such rule. Never has been. And frankly it wouldn't make any sense.
*Sigh* That is the only rule that DOES make sense. See the diagram below. By your logic, the corner belongs to the black car. But what if it is the white car that is overtaking? THEN whose corner is it? Still the black car? The only rule that can be applied at any time is simple and logical, and always has been the rule in all the 30 years I have been racing: the leading car has priority. The inside car wins ties. Anything else is impossible from any point of view. Donations to charity as before. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Good post If you go to a GO-KART racing track in England in most cases even if you touch a kart whilst trying to overtake you are Black flagged. A harsh and real annoying rule. And that is the main point they will bang on about all the time it drives you mad, but that is the rule I got brought up with.. Probably the main reason is ,they dont want damaged karts.. As with many F1 drivers I would assume they started out in KARTS. If Massa or any driver did that move on DC on the GO-KART tracks I go, black flag no question.. And the other thing to bear in mind is all the Karts are the same power ...no Ferrari power.
