Considering moving from Porsche to Ferrari - viewing Mondial T tomorrow

This is a great board and I am glad that I found it. In fact, I was referred here by some of my Porsche on-line (Rennlist) friends who have moved to Ferrari.

I, like every warm blooded being, have lusted over Ferraris all of my life. Porsche is in my blood, it all started when I rode in the back seat of my dad's 356 daily driver for the first 11 years of my life. I have two 911s now ('94 964 daily driver and '96 993 Cab weekend car) and am passionate about these cars. But I have decided that I want something more unique. I plan to trade the '96 Cab.

The shop that services my cars has an '89 Mondial T on consignment. 13k miles, fresh service, belts, and upgraded 355 clutch and flywheel. Apparently the car is very well documented. I have seen it, love it, and plan to drive it tomorrow. I like the Mondial for several reasons: it has enough seats for me and my family for when that is needed (like a 911), love the way it looks, like a cab, I think it is an appropriate 1st Ferrari, and it is a great pricepoint.

I am sure there have been multiple posts, many that I have read, that address what to look for in these cars when buying. Any tips or links to good posts? Anyone moved from aircooled 911s?

While I will own a 430 one day (my kids are too young and they love cars), this seems like a great way to experience a Ferrari.

Thanks for your comments and I hope to be an active participant on this board.

Best,

Patrick

 

welcome to the brotherhood

 

Welcome. I think you're in the right place to learn about Mondials. I moved from a '96 993 cab to a 328, so I can share some experience based on that but will defer to the Mondial experts.

The big thing to be aware of, and you probably know this, is that Ferraris cost more (well, understatement...) to service. With the Mondial T, you have the 348 drivetrain and electronics, so it will need an engine-out timing belt service every 3-5 years (controversy there, but I think most would agree that 5 years is the outside limit). Expect to pay upwards of $5000. Some people like the Mondial 3.2 (328 drivetrain), because it's a bit simpler and can be serviced without engine removal. I'm not sure if the T has the dual-plate clutch of the early 348s, but you might ask here -- the cost to replace those can be steep.

When you drive it, you'll get the feel of it, but the Mondial design goes back to 1980 or so. I haven't driven a Mondial T, so I'm not sure how it compares to the 328 or 348, but you may find the gearbox is reluctant when cold. It should not grind. Sometimes people who don't know try to force it into 2nd when it's cold -- best just to skip it if the gearbox isn't willing. Just expect it to feel like an older car in terms of ergonomics.

I would also pay attention to all the "small stuff" -- switches, lights, trim pieces, convertible top hardware -- because you won't like the replacement costs (or availability) of old Ferrari parts. It's a big difference from the Mercedes/Porsche/BMW world, where the cars are mass-produced and spares kept in stock seemingly forever.

Try the cabriolet top. Again, I'm assuming the 'T' has the same top as the earlier ones, and they can be a handful to raise and stow. The boot on the 993 cab was a bit of a hassle, I always thought, but that top was quick compared to the Ferrari's.

I believe the transition from the 328 to the 348 (in 1989) marked the beginning of robots/automated assembly in the Ferrari factory. Not sure how the Mondial T was built. But in any event your 993 is probably the best modern Porsche ever built in terms of paint, gaps, structural integrity and component quality. Ferrari still doesn't build cars that meet that standard, IMO. When you look it over, the factory original paint may have more orange peel and flaws than your 993.

Having had both, I'd say the comparison between Porsche and Ferrari usually comes down to no more than both being thought of as expensive sports car and both having four wheels and tires. A more direct comparison, IMO, would be coming from another Italian sports car (maybe a Fiat or an Alfa), where the car has that delicate feel. But Ferraris make noises unlike any of those, so even then it's an imperfect comparison.

One final thought: The Mondial is a fine car, but two-seater Ferraris have always been more in demand. If you're thinking of the Mondial as a fun car to own/drive, no worries. If you're thinking it's going to appreciate in value over the next few years, I wouldn't count on it. The good news is the one you're looking at is very low mileage, so you can drive it a bit without having hard to sell high mileage Ferrari.

 

I know, I know, I am severely biased. Still, I think I should make this point: the mondial is less sporty and less pure than its predecessor: the 308GT4.

My old neighbour has one of both: a Mondial (not sure if it is a T) convertible and a GT4 and he's always telling me that there is a huge difference between the two. The Mondial drives like a regular car, whereas the GT4 needs you to work hard for your performance. The GT4 is simply more pure, less refined, more hairy chested.

I guess it all boils down to what you are expecting from your car and how you are planning on using it. If you're mostly into cruising with the family, then the mondial is the way to go. It will likely be less sporty than your Porsche, or about on par maybe. If you like to blast through canyons, sweat on your brows (and back), work the throttle and stick, exhaust pop pop popping, intake snorting, just you and the Beast, and maybe the occasional kid crammed in the admittedly much smaller back seat, then forget the mondial and start hunting for a GT4, preferably an earlier one, euro spec.

I just LOVE mine. I'm addicted. So I am biased, but I wrote that already

Hans

P.S. Of course there is the love-it-or-hate-it styling of the GT4. I dug it when I bought the car and I am falling for it more and more every time I look at it. It might not be your cup of tea though....

 

Look forward to hear your thoughts after your drive!

Cheers!

 

Welcome Patrick!

I go back and forth between driving the RS Amercia and the 328. Apples and oranges but love them both.

I don't know if the search function is available for non-members but doing a search on the subjects you are interested in will yield scads of threads discussing buying a f-car.

Also...I recommend joining f-chat. The small fee has yielded 100 fold in returns.

Good luck and welcome again....and oh...if you start considering a 328 lemme know.

 

Does that car happen to be in the Dallas area? If so, I too have had a look at it and was sort of thinking about letting go of my daily driver 993 Targa for it...

Good luck, if it is the same one, you go first! (I already have a Testarossa)

 

Its at Ruf Auto center. I flew down to look at this car 2 weeks ago for a customer here in Toronto Canada. PM me if you want my thoughts on the car. Its a good driver and in fairly good shape.

 

Patrick Hello!
I also went from my 96 993 coupe to Ferrari, bought a 1984 308 GTB QV about a year and a half ago,- GO FOR IT!!- There are so many good people here that will go out of their way to help when it comes to maintenance issues or "do it yourself" projects making the ownership experience very positive! Can't say that was always the case with my Porsche. HA!

 

"Porsche --- There is no substitute."

errrrrr.... except Ferrari.

 

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Thanks for taking the time to write the long and insightful responses.

I know that this is going to be a very different car than the Porsche. That is part of what interests me!

I have spoken to two of you (James and Tom) and I appreciate your candid feedback. I also called Norwood in Dallas to introduce myself and get their advice on what to look for prior to PPI. They were great and are willing to to a PPI next week if I get that far.

So, I will post up more tomorrow after the test drive.

I have to say that I can tell that this is a great community and a very small world. I hope to be a part of it soon. If not this car, another will come my way. I love the hunt...

 

Good luck! You're in good hands with Norwood.

 

Patrick,

Take the plunge and go for it! I unloaded an 90 C4 Coupe, 87 911 Targa, 88 944 Turbo, and a 75 914 with a 3.6 964 motor, for my 89 328. Never looked back. As many have mentioned, as long as the car was maintained properly there should be no major issues to worry about. There are way too many Porsches running around here in Northern New Jersey!

Let us know what you think after your test drive.

 

I test drove the car today (twice.)

As stated before, I was very anxious about driving a Ferrari. But I was all grins!

I got good advice from everyone about warming the transmission, so I was ready for the stiff transmission when cold. It loosened up quickly and became very easy to drive. The car started easily with no drama or smoke.

I went through the car thoroughly and inspected the items James and Tom noticed. While this car has only 13k miles, it is no concours car. But I am not looking for a garage queen, I am looking for a weekend driver. My only concern is that I could not get the top to close. It almost seemed like it shrunk and needed to be stretched. Is that common for cars that have been sitting for a while? The shop is going to open it in the sun and close it for my inspection tomorrow. An operational top is a MUST.

Driving the car was like a dream. It pulls hard, sounds like heaven, is very involving, and is much more stable and composed than my Porsches. It was not "twitchy" over rough roads. I felt like I could drive it faster and faster and longer an longer with tremendous stability. It is a long car. I really like driving it - can you tell? It is not as nimble as the Porsche, but a great fun driver.

At this point I waiting to verify the operation of the top. Then I will negotiate pending a PPI. I think this will be an incredible car.

Any thoughts or advice?

 

Correct
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I suspect a replacement top is expensive, so make sure it works. Yes, convertibles are supposed to be stored with the top closed for this reason.

The Mondial is a longer car, thus the stability and emphasis on ride comfort. It's probably not a fair comparison to a sports car like a Porsche 911, or even another exotic like the 308/328.

There was an article in Forza magazine (in early 2006) comparing the Mondial and 328. Not a bad read if you don't mind spending $8 on the back issue.

 

No alternative!
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

There's no substitute for the alternative.

 

Well put!

 

No doubt the top is a bear. When we bought our t, the Ferrari mechanic at Shelton had a time latching it. He also said to never leave it open for extended periods of time. However, we do leave it open for most of the summer. The trick is to go back and fourth between the latches. You need to stand outside of the car with one hand on top and one underneath, and squeese the latch from above and underneath. Do not allow any sideways movement or the pot metal arms in the latches will break (unless you have upgraded to the steel ones here on FChat). One of these days I am going to look for another set of latches from a modern convertible.

Carefully Inspect the latches before you buy! They are expensive.
Ciao, dave

 

Those latches WILL break eventually.
No matter how careful you are w/them!

Do a search on the subject and make sure to buy the replacement latches offered by fellow Fchatter, ronfrohock.
They are stronger and cheaper than the stock part.

Cheers

 

Thanks for all of the top advice. I will search and find the fchat procedure.

That makes me feel much better about it! The seller told me that the latches were recently replaced.

 

Patrick,
Your situation is my exact story. I have owned Porsches for 25 years. For 16 years, I had a 1979 Targa and then a few years ago,
I upgraded to a 1986 Factory Turbo Look Cabriolet. I decided that I wanted to try something different. I felt that the Mondial
cab was the only car for me since I wanted 4 seats and a convertible top. I found my 1989 Mondial T Cab with 28k miles.
It was in great shape but needed a full engine out service. I purchased it for a very good price and the pricing reflected
the need for a major service. I had the service done by a very reputable private shop. They also discovered that it
needed a new clutch so my total for the major and the clutch (plus a few other small things) was over $9000.
I yearn for the Porsche servicing.
I must say, now that that the service has been done, the car absolutely purrs. Compared to the Porsche, I believe it pulls
harder but offer a less (road feel) with respect to handling. The Mondial is very comfortable and the sound is great.
I had the Porsche on the race track at a Porsche Club event and I think it is more suited on the track compared to the
ferrari but I have yet to put the Mondial on the track. All in all, I love the car and am happy that I made the switch.

If you'd like to see my current car, click below:
http://www.ronsusser.com/vehicles.asp?c=df&id=758
and if you'd like to see my previous Porsche, click here:
http://www.ronsusser.com/inventory.asp?i=86

Best of luck.
Ron
[email protected] if you'd like to contact me directly

 

I don't know what material the T top is made out of, but, the trick I use on my TR is to leave the car in the sun with the top up, but, not latched. The sun will heat it up enough to allow it to stretch and be closed.