The rule says no such thing. What is say is that the driver in front may not block by changing line more than 1 time and that BOTH drivers need to leave room on the track for the other driver. I can't believe this debate is still going on honestly.....they both a little wrong. Massa tried a bone-head pass the couldn't possibly work and DC crashed into him trying to close a door that wasn't opened to begin with.
At the highest levels of any sport there is only one rule. Do whatever it takes to win without A) getting penalized, and B) damaging yourself or your equipment. Massa accomplished this so his pass was a good one. In reality it was a perfect pass because he also took out the competition without getting a penalty. DC will probably give him a bit more room in the future as well. However, I think it is pure luck Massa's car was not damaged. This is what makes the pass dumb. Also, in past years a pass like this would at least get an investigation. Perhaps this year the stewards are going to be more lax in order to encourage more passing. Another thing to think about. When you are behind someone and faster it can be hard to judge exactly how much faster. Based on previous laps Massa may have expected DC's corner speed to be a little slower than it was on this lap. He may have expected to have a wheel in front by the time he reached the apex. That said, he still could have apologized later.
+1000000 That ought to be the end of the discussion. I don't want to share the track with anyone who can't understand this post.
You actually believe what you say. Remarkable! You are just as deluded as the original post that I replied to. There is clearly a hierachy in every team. The FIA mandates that teams cannot have team orders yet miraculously, whenever the preferred driver is behind the 2nd driver he manages to make a "racing pass" on him. The teams will make all kinds of statements because it sounds good, but their resources, their support, their best engineers and everything else necessary to win will be focused on one driver. It's always been that way. Even Alonso, a reigning WDC, found out the hard way that his team preferred his teammate. As to contender for ridiculous posts - congratulations. You just qualified on pole.
While approaching a corner in a formula car at the end of a long straight, on the line, a competitor late braked to get his front tire ahead of my rear right at the apex. It launched my car and upon landing sideways 2 others crashed into me taking them out as well. When confronted in the pits his crew accused me of not watching my mirrors and not allowing racing room. Driver "had an appointment elsewhere" and had left the track. Fortunately another following car had the entire event on tape with his onboard camera. We took it to the stewards which reviewed it. This Drivers license was eventually pulled. Racing room has to be allowed during normal circumstances but not situations where the passing car deliberately causes the lead car to dangerously veer from his line. If I had veered at this speed and on the limits of adhesion it would have caused my car to go off track on the exit. Moral of the story; Be aggressive but use some common sense while passing.
I am not in F1. I am very nice on the track. I even like racing Skippy where both parties involved in any contact come in for an "inspection". None of you would have any problem racing with me. None of you would make it to F1 though if you are waiting for an invitation to make a pass.
You have a strange attitude for someone who races in Skip Barber. Perhaps you should go back and try to learn something this time. I don't wait for an invitation to pass, nor do I intentionally t-bone a driver while doing so.
I still don't get how this has anything to do with me racing. I avoid contact at all costs. I would have not done what Massa did. At least not intentionally, and if it was a mistake I would certainly have apologized. I am just saying it is naive to think that Massa is upset with the result of his pass on Coulthard. To be honest I think Coulthard was stuck as well. He had to turn into Massa. Otherwise everyone is going to dive bomb him. My only point was that these guys are playing alot more agressively than those of us used to the club racer code. Look at it a different way. Massa doesn't make any pass. His car doesn't break. Instead there is athread here about how he can't even get by a Red Bull car and how Kimi would have found a way by. I'm not defending Massa as a driver either. I don't think he's one of the top drivers at all.
If BMW was a contender for either WCC or WDC they would have a real # 1. The only teams realistically in the hunt are Ferrari with Raikonnen, Mclaren with Hamilton and perhaps Renault with Alonso. Everyone else (including BMW) is just filler. If you hadn't worked that out it appears that you are the neophyte.
or in other words, your argument falls apart at the first test... I have been following F1 longer than you have likely been alive.
This should really be a new thread, but here goes: I think BMW may really surprise this year. Both drivers are first class and the team has been slowly but very steadily and methodically improving. They have kind of been out of the limelight because of all the ridiculous activity last year around Ferrari and McLaren, but the team talent and resources are there to contend for the championship. Alonso and Renault, on the other hand, don't have a chance in my opinion. Alonso may even reach new highs in crankiness.
+1 regarding BMW I think the Renault was unimpressive at Australia but Alonso is one of the best drivers in F1, he will haul that car higher in the standings than it deserves to be. Not that it matters much, he is simply biding his time until he joins Ferrari in 2009...
I doubt that very much. I sat in the Lotus pits and watched Jim Clark win his last Grand Prix ay Kyalami, in 1968.
Red Bull has more chance to win the WCC and they have no chance, so go figure BMW's odds. This is the reality of F1. There are two dominant teams, along with a third team with a former WDC in a decent car with excellent financial support and a very savvy principal. Everyone else is a filler, whether you like it or not. We are talking about winning here, are we not? Impressive drives that don't finish in first place are really just a fun day running around a racetrack. Was it Seinfeld who stated in the clearest possible terms that coming second is simply being the first loser?
Trying to get back to the original posting here, is the Coulthard video still available somewhere? Every link I have tried has the same "removed by F-1 for copyright reasons" or some such nonsense . . . .
The problem with your argument is just like your diagram, too black and white. The thing is it is often hard to define who has the right and who doesn't, thats why there are "racing incidents" and no solid rules to define what is the legal way to pass (only tells you what is illegal). My opinion is that Massa wasn't at much fault in this case (I am no Massa fan); obviously his car was much faster on the straight and also with the effect of slipstreaming, his decision to try and takeover Coulthard is completely logical IMO. What do you expect him to do? "hmmm... since I am not sure if I can get my nose over Coulthard's, i guess i should just let go of the throttle, light up my turning signal (if theres one) and slip back behind him..."?? This is racing, you have to be aggressive, you have to earn your positions, they dont come to you so you have to take your chances. And its not like his nose was at Coulthard's rear axle when they made contact. Besides, he was on the inside line, the corner was tight, Coulthard tried to run the normal line leaving massa no room at all, even more braking couldnt avoid contact at that stage IMO; so what was Massa supposed to do? The fault lies on Coulthard IMO as he was the one who could have avoided the contact. He was the one who did not protect the inside line leaving an opportunity for Massa to lunch in. I don't see how Coulthard has any right to run the normal line when clearly there is a car right there side by side (doesnt matter whos nose is in front). Just to clarify, I dislike Massa and the screwup at the start is just unbelievable.
The point is that Massa isn't a competent driver in terms of the team he is in. WDC class car and Massa was 4th in 2007. He blew it for Ferrari's chance at the WCC and only the FIA saved him. Talk all you want, but his perpetual failure to perform could have cost Ferrari a LOT of money. Find one team boss in F1 that will admit to 100 million USD being peanuts and I will listen to what you are saying. I've fed actual peanuts to actual elephants and thought nothing of it. Find me a F1 boss that could feed 100 million dollars to an elephant and not think twice about it and I will casually concede your point, but would raise another. Context or not, 100M is a big sum for anyone or anything on this planet. Shyt, for 100m, I could field 1/4 of the grid for a year.
I thought this thread was about DC swearing on TV. It seems to have taken a few twists and turns since then. Nobody is going to change their mind about who's fault the crash was. I like Massa more than DC so I'm inclined to blame DC, but I won't waste time trying to change anyone else's opinion. I am glad that DC spoke his mind and I am also glad that Massa hasn't apologised. Here's what they said about it today: from: http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/2008/03/felipes-version.html