Road and Track: ZO6 vs 911 Turbo vs GTR

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6594

Well, I guess it doesn't matter which magazine does the test. Results are the same. GTR is monster...

Lap times by Steve Millen

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0508_ct_OnTrack.pdf

 

nissan gets a pro driver, and on the track they build the gtr on...


Give all 3 cars pro drivers and put it on a unbiased track and i almost guarantee you wont see the GTR being 5 seconds faster

 

+1....

I smell a ringer here....

A few tricks like a little more negative camber or a bit more sticky tires, and voila, big numbers in a "road test".

OOPS!!! just looked at the spec sheets... The Nissan is on Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's... Big advantage over the Corvette Gdyrs, and the Porsche Dumbwops... That might not be all of it, but that's a big part.. I have pics of a friends Corvette with the inside front wheel up in the air on PS2's...

Also, who wants a 4,000 pound car, no matter how "fast" it is???

 

me.... if it has 4 doors

I blame drivers more then anything. Factory tires are factory tires really... But if nissan gets a pro driver and the others get magazine writers...

5 seconds is MASSIVE

 

I just cant see it being 5 seconds faster and the mph to be 4 higher then the Z06. That car would have to be running more boost or something, the Vette is a seriously fast car.

 

Hmm? All three cars were driven by pro driver, Steve Millen. And GTR was built on Button Willow? That is first time I heard this.

 

I think you read it wrong. GTR was running Dunlop SP Sports

Road and Track
"The Dunlop SP Sports get noisy at highway speed, but other than this and an occasionally clunky low-speed shift, the GT-R is a capable daily commuter."

 

I think so far this is most fair comparison done by a magazine.

All three cars are stock configuration, same pro driver, same time, same weather condition, same track, etc.

 

Yeah, what utter BS!

If it was a longer track the ZO6 would have been damn close or beat it.

....if only the ZO6 didn't have those damn run flats. Just wait until the ZR1 hits the streets.

 

OK bud I'll bite. I'll take the 3800 lb GTR over the Z06 all day long.

 

The GTR does everything better than either of those cars minus acceleration and im a fan of all 3 of them. lol theres always haters.

 

hes a nissan factory driver. I want to see GMs factory driver in the vette and porsches in the 911


yes im a hater

 

1.) Millen is a Nissan test driver.... official.... where are Walter Rohl and John Henriechy / Jan Magnusen????

2.) The GTR pounded out a lap time of a R compound slick Viper Competition Coupe while racing and winning? RIP Paul Mumford...

3.) Lets see the GTR do this after 5 hot laps

4.) The numbers are interesting.... every advantage the GTR has in accell, or braking is lost above 60 mph to both cars.... the GTR is a full 2 seconds slower to 120 then the Z06 is... that is A LOT... a WHOLE LOT... which means this... on the street, unless the two cars are doing standing starts, the GTR won't hold squat to either the 911 Turbo, or the C6 Z06. They will say "let's meet on the circuit" .... and when they do... lets see how long those new fangled tires (dunlops) do against the repeated lap after lap runflats on the Z06

The Telemetry shows that the GTR is really only faster in two corners... and one of those corners it is "stupid faster" then the others.... which leads me to believe there is something VERY wrong with this test..... refer to no. 2

Code:

      Place     Car No.     Car     Drivers     Lap1     Lap2     Lap3     Total         Points            
      1     27     2003 Dodge Viper      Competition     Mumford, Provost     1:55.960     1:56.002     1:56.124     5:48.086     40            
      2     98     2002 Radical SR3     Johnson, Dalen,      Morris     1:56.137     1:56.451     1:56.477     5:49.065     35            
      3     93     2002 Radical SR3     Dalen, Johnson,      Morris     1:58.395     1:58.461     1:58.889     5:55.745     30            
      4     55     1992 Acura NSX     Hayashi,      Messley, Mello     1:59.104     1:59.678     1:59.897     5:58.679     25            
      5     76     2002 Radical SR3     Morris, Dalen,      Johnson     2:00.137     2:00.518     2:00.623     6:01.278     20            
      6     500     2001 Chevrolet      Corvette Z06     Cardenas, Ames     2:05.893     2:07.505     2:07.584     6:20.982     15            
      7     206     2002 Chevrolet      Corvette Z06     Chavis, Blevins     2:08.863     2:08.940     2:08.940     6:26.743     10            
      8     4     1987 Pontiac      Fiero     Ondrack, Salter     2:09.195     2:09.562     2:09.574     6:28.331     5

 

http://forums.roadandtrack.com/cars/board/message?board.id=Reader&thread.id=138

From the editor of R&T

"Normally I would ignore this type of post, but since I know who you are I'll comment. Steve Millen did not sandbag. Steve has been a trusted friend of this magazine for years. The fact that he's won endurance races at Sebring, Daytona and LeMans should be enough qualifications, but if in doubt he's won plenty others. Steve gets paid to go fast consistantly, never to go slow.

As for his ties with Nissan, I doubt he would have anything to gain by lieing about a product. He surely didn't when he drove a 350Z for us back in 2005 during the Best All-Around Sports Car story.

When I first heard the results of the GT-R test I had a similar reaction you did. That of "no way" is the GT-R 5-seconds a lap quicker! Having the resources to look at the collected GPS data I proceeded to explore what happened. Turns out the GT-R has better tires and the AWD technology to put them to use. Lots of other factors, but I assure you Steve didn't hold back in the Z06. Nothing in the data would suggest that. The fact that the 911 Turbo and Z06 ran nearly identical times is as expected from all previous testing of the two cars.

If this vouching is not enough look up what Chris Harris of Auto Car thinks in a comparison he did with the Porsche GT3, M3 and GT-R. Guess who's quicker?

Best,
-Shaun

P.S. If I'm wrong Motonishi-san can have my job."

 

Cry me a river, maybe we should have had Walter Rohl drive the GTR at the Ring. The GTR with its electronic gizmos and advanced ATTESA AWD system make for a fast car. Noone is denying that in a straightline the others cars are faster due to the GTR being so heavy. Im sure the R&T article is just a big conspiracy/cover up right?

 

It appears that some people simply cannot give a Japanese supercar its due. There's no point wasting time with these people, the rest of the world will just move on and leave them behind to wallow in their excuses.

 

Something's fishy about the extremely slow lap set by the ZO6 around Buttonwillow. I would say that a driver mod is in order.


From Automotorsport around Mantorp Park's short (1.950 km/1.212 mile) configuration



and another

From:http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...p_2007_feature

Caranddriver The Lightning Lap at VIR, 2007

2007 Corvette ZO6 - 2:58.2
2007 Porsche 911 GT3 - 3:01.8
2007 Chevrolet Corvette - 3:03.6
2007 Porsche 911 Turbo - 3:05.8

 

Well the GTR is proof that beinf fast and good looking are not linked in any way.

Sort of like an Austin Healey in reverse.

 

There is most definitely something fishy about these times.

5 seconds PER LAP is gigantic. I mean just insanely huge of a gap. Thats like the difference between what you'd expect a Mustang to do vs what a Ferrari 430 would do. Just a massive gap. Thats the first thing.

Second thing - the GTR was supposed to be 5 seconds per lap quicker at the 'ring. Uhhh, something isn't adding up here. If it's 5 seconds quicker at BW, how does this possibly add up?

As for using Millen as the driver, it's hardly unbiased. Yes he is paid to go fast... for Nissan. I am not so sure that he was "sandbagging", as just driving comfortably in the Z and 911 and pushing the GTR to the edge of it's abilities.

As for folks who think magazines are unbiased... HA! I have advertised in many automotive magazines over the years, and I have outright been offered positive reviews and press based on advertising $$ spent. You can't lock someone else out in my experience (i.e. I don't think Nissan could pay to get a Z06 a bad review), but you *absolutely* can put the most positive spin possible on your product/company if you're willing to ante up the right quantity of dollars. BW is probably the most GTR-friendly track around (small, short and tight course). They had the Nissan factory guy doing the driving in a Nissan factory car (ringer?).

I'll believe 5-seconds per lap when I see other magazines buying each model off the showroom floor. I'd love for the GTR to be as fast as they say because it would probably be THE car to have for a DD (cheaper and WAY better performance than an M5!) but at this point I have a hard time buying the track times, especially considering how much slower the car is in acceleration next to the 911 and Z.

 

Read the article. I think for this test, these are the results they got nothing was doctored. I don't believe Millen sandbagged - His Z06 time was similar to what C&D got earlier in the year at the same track. On the telemetry plot, it's very clear that the vast majority of the time was made in 2-3 spots. It's literally *amazing* how much faster the GT-R is at those locations. At a track which doesn't really ever see above 120mph, the acceleration differences do not affect the laps times at all. In fact, the scoring was much closer than the lap time would imply. They even gave the Z06 the categories of "driver excitement" & "engine" in their subjective rankings.

I wouldn't be surprised if the GT-R was the fastest production car under 200K...

 

I guess no one is gonna be happy until someone gets factory drivers from all 3 makes. Then have said ringers drive the **** outta each car on different track configurations. Thats gonne be one expensive comparo without manufacturer "Ad" dollars. Especially if you refrain from using factory ringer cars. I hope the Nissan's numbers are real because it has to make up for its brutal looks somewhere!

 

Two spots in particular.... one is DEFINITELY a 'confidence' factor where it made up the "most" time over the other two cars... a higher speed sweeper. The handling was similar virtually everywhere else.... but Millen knew the GTR... or felt comfortable pushing her on that turn MUCH more then the others.... That doesn't mean the others would understeer, or oversteer off the track... just Millen doesn't know those cars.

and a part of it is with out any doubt, the tires the GTR has.

 

One certainty that can be said about the GTR is that it should be expected to perform very well considering the millions they obviously saved from pouring into the Design and Styling departments... yikes!

 

Cool car. No way it runs w/a Comp Coupe (much less a PMUM-helmed one) or a Radical - especially on street meats. Different zip codes. Could be a another Buttonwillow configuration? There're a few.

 

I don't think the results were doctored.... however, the whole test was certainly set up with the very best possible conditions to favor the GTR. I also have my doubts whether Millen was pushing all the cars to their max, and I have my doubts about whether the GTR in this test is performing the same as one off the showroom floor.

Hey, maybe I am wrong about this - but I tend to doubt it - simply because 5 seconds is such a HUGE gap and the GTR is slower in acceleration and braking and because the time was made up in a couple of places on the track. I am very interested in the GTR for myself because it looks like an awesome car. I love high-tech cars, I love AWD and I love the fact that it has a back seat. If the car is all that it's hyped to be, I will be ecstatic and I will own one as soon as they can be had for MSRP around here. I just have very big doubts about whether it performs as well as Nissan would have us believe. The thing about marketing is that by the time other tests come out, the "damage" will be done (or the hype train, more realistically will have left the station). For years people will remember how awesome the GTR is just like the original Supras that were turning mid 12-second 1/4's yet no customer cars (stock) could match that.

We shall see!