Dear Lamborghinisti, 360spider, I'm bummed out for you. You would think buying a car would be easier than this. I just don't understand why everyone here is passing the buck to you....as if it's your fault? OK, I don't understand law at all ( I make no pretence too either ) but I would figure it would be a problem between you (buyer) and Roy (seller ). Good luck ! I really wish the best for you. Shamile Freeze...Miami Vice !
You can get title insurance which would have been a smart move (in hindsight of course). ...also deal only with reputable dealers who deal in reputable cars.
Just to be clear I am not necessarily saying it's Roy's fault, but it's like one of those car accidents where a guy slams into a line of cars and they all accordion together. You paid Roy, he has your money. You could get it back from him (and your lawyer will probably advise just that). Roy paid the dealer in Vegas, his recourse would be with that dealer. That dealer paid the customer and his recourse is with the customer. The leasing company isn't suing anyone, they just want the car back. Sure, it's great for Roy and the guy in Vegas if you just deal with the leasing company in a lawsuit - but you may have a harder time winning a suit against them since you never did any business with them. I am not a lawyer, so I really don't know for sure - but you most certainly need to talk to one and get this moving before you end up worse off.
Boy this sucks. I guess you need to get title insurance on your car, and not just your house. That's kinda strange that the title company could get the writ in the first place. If the title was free & clear and transfered that way over a period of time, I don't see how they could actually seize the car. Sure, they could sue, and that's purely a civil matter, and I would think 360 would still maintain posession of the car until the outcome. Someone has a judge in their pocket to pull this off (i.e the leasing co.).
i can understand your emotional and distressed hell i would be too. but come on facts are facts which it looks like youve completely disregarded in this case to try to make Roy look at fault- You need to go after the issuing company -its not very hard to see- money cant buy smarts... stop posting and crying about it and go get it resolved and get yourself a lawyer. (youll respond to my post im sure while still ignoring Roys)
I'm really sorry for your situation, but........... How does someone with the ability to purchase a Gallardo not know how to contact an attorney? As everyone has pointed out, you should have been on the phone with an attorney as soon those handcuffs were removed. How does suing Roy enter this equation? I don't know him from jack (other than his reputation on this forum), but he seems to have done everything legally required to purchase and sell a car. As did the dealer he bought it from. You could include his name in the law suit in an attempt to extort money from him, as well as the previous dealer (I had someone attempt to include me in a suit, and my attorney gave them $100 to just go away. The other attorney knew it was cheaper than going to trial) but your beef is with leasing company. You did nothing wrong on your end. We understand that. The parties at fault are the ass clown that took the money and ran, and the leasing company that released the title. Again, I'm really sorry this happened to you. By your posts, it sounds like you are in panic mode. Take a deep breath, get on the phone, and get your car back. p.s. I apologize for a completely useless post, but the overly litigious mindset gets to me sometimes. Good luck.
I am SHOCKED at the frequency in which Cats is embroiled in some controversy or drama. I know he had no fault in this, but jeez.
No, he is not in panic mode. He is in "I want to prolong this and draw as much attention to this as possible mode" He knows exactly what to do to try and protect his car or his cash, and he knows it aint by wasting time here on F-Chat. He is a smart savvy guy who had the wherewithall to acquire the resources neccesary to buy a Lamborghini. He is not helpless, and he could be spending time building a good case to protect his interests rather than wasting time on multiple threads about the situation on multiple forums. If he really wanted to, he would have secured an excellent attorney the same night the indcident occured, and Id venture to say that most people who drive a Lamborghini already have an attorney (if the dont, they should!!). So sorry it happened, and yes many would like to hear the details so we can learn from it, but Im in no doubt whatsoever that he knows how to handle his business without the drama being created here & elsewhere. Thats my opinion. Joe www.joesackey.com
Roys not gonna step up and take care of this for you?!?!?! I know its gotta go back to the title company,but he should really step up and handle that then again, this is FChat and a negative thread about Roy......I see this thread disapearing VERY soon
Well I'll throw in my 2 cents from a legal perspective. If all the parties involved were private party sales, i.e. the car passed from one private owner, to another, to another, they could all claim 'no fault'. However as the two previous owners/sellers prior to the private person owning it were LICENSED AUTOMOBILE DEALERS - the dealers have a serious problem. #1- In most states licensed automobile dealers are required to carry business insurance, and business insurance isn't theft and collission, it's to protec against fraud claims and usually falls under general liability, fraud, and contract insurance. Each state has their laws governing licensed car dealerships. Licensed car dealerships cannot sell stolen cars, or fraudlently obtained or fraudulently titled cars. This car is a fraudulently titled car, and just because you did your usual rigamarole of usual searches Roy, at anytime had you contacted the leasing company before or during your acquisition of the car, you would have found out right away what was going on. Any person who purchases a car in just about any state from a licensed automobile dealer that represents the car as having clear title, is buying it under the dealer's representation of such. The dealer is warrantying the transaction whether he likes it or not, based on the law. You can stick a sign on the car itself that says 'no warranty' but that applies to mechanical defects in the vehicle. If there are legal defects in the contract the state and federal laws control the warranty. Private party purchasers who make such purchases would never, ever, ever, under any court's view in any state, have any expectation of driving the car down the street only to have it taken away by the police and thrown in impound by some judge in some other state, because the car technically is someone else's property due to title fraud. Mr 360Spider - If you bought the car from Roy, and he represented it to you as having clear title, and you PAID your money to Roy at Cats Exotics, and the car has been swept away and sent back to some other state for whatever reason in whatever court case, you are NOT OUT YOUR MONEY. The consumer protection laws and automobile dealer laws of both your home state as well as Roy's state apply, and you can forum shop that to get the best place to go to court. The loop goes in order, right down the chain. To say the new owner of the car's only recourse is to go after the leasing company is just one way to skin the cat, and a big leap frog of the chain of funds transfer, since monies were paid to CatsExotics. The correct resolution of this matter is that CatsExotics refunds the private purchaser's money, and all interest and claims in the car go back to Roy by way of signing it over, title in hand or not. Then Roy either files claim under his business insurance for the matter and/or then himself goes after either the leasing company or the dealer that sold it to him, or his business insurance company does to recoup their loss. Because even though everyone on FChat loves Roy and will give him a pat on the back no court is going to care about that. There is nothing to say that both automobile dealers didn't maybe smell something fishy and dumped the car cheap to move it or made it priority #1 on their sale list. There can be collusion and conspiracy right down the chain, and because the car crossed state lines the tort could easily be brought in a Federal District Court and ALL PARTIES: Cats, Viva Las Vegas Motorcars, and the leasing company: can all be named defendants. They are not side players or promoters, they weren't just the sales people or the newspaper that printed an ad for the car. They were actively involved in the sale and transfer of the motor vehicle at each stage. In Federal Court they DO NOT fux around, and in a case like this with licensed auto dealers the words 'you should have known better' will apply to all the dealers and lease company, but NEVER to the purchaser. The jurisdiction issues, along with multiple parties at potential fault, along with the dollar amount of the claim all make this qualify in a heart beat to brought into Federal Court. Why give the court just one party to make the decision of fault or not, and one party to share either the full blame and full responsibility, or none. Name them all as defendents, and let the court sort it out. The court might dump it all on one, or split it up amongst them. Regardless, if was my car, all the car dealer's butts would be getting served TOMORROW. Case in point there was another thread on here recently of someone who's rims got stolen out of a storage area in his Trump building condo in New York. The manager of the building told him he could put them in a temporary storage area, the garage area wasn't owned by the Trump building though, and it was then sold to someone else, who hired yet another company to come clean it out, and somewhere along the way the rims got stolen. I told him to drag every single party into court as defendants, and he replied that he couldn't believe I said that, because he had just got done talking to the cops and they told him the exact same thing. Why? Because when a person working for a company represents something to you the consumer, they have made a contract with you even if verbally. That contract, depending on what it entails, carries with it warranties and representations, based on the laws of the state whether the person who made them like it or not. Then each party in the chain is carrying those warranties and represenations along with them. That guy and rims though, because of the weirdness of the whole situation, is probably going to have a hard time in court. Also the amount (under$25,000) and the fact that it is private, untitled, un-registered property - falls under a whole different set of statutes. Roy, do you not have umbrella liability and contract insurance as dealer? If you don't then you should. By selling the car under contract to the buyer you have made warranties and representations to the buyer whether they are spelled out in the contract or not, and even if you revoked them in the contract under state or federal law they may be irrevocable. Why? To prevent CatsExotics and every other licensed car dealership from becoming 'shady car clearing house' and simply getting away with it by just saying 'gee I did my homework, car checked out great'.
Wow what a terrible thing to happen. I was once in a slightly similar situation though not with a car. I licensed a property to make toys of. I paid the license fees and the manufacturing costs. Right before my product was to be released I was informed by an attorney that the company I purchased the rights from didnt actually hold the particular rights I purchased. Basically saying they would sue me if I released the product. The company I purchased the rights from continued to assert that they did indeed have the legal right to sell me what they did and they showed a contract between themselves and the other company. Problem was the way it was worded it go could either way and each company believed the property was theirs to license. My attorney told me I had to directly sue the company I did the business with and then they could sue the other...trickle down. Long story short. Roy has a great reputation and seems to be a good guy. This is an unfortunate situation but if it were me Id have to go after Roy for my money and then let him take legal action against the company that sold him the car. Im no attorney...just my $.02
I've been following your situation with your car from day one both on this site and on the other site. Right from the first day when you were complaining about paint and how Roy had cheated you. You keep asking for people's advice.....but all you're really doing is grandstanding your situations....and you keep ignoring all the advice that people have been giving you. As far as I'm concerned.....you know exactly what to do.....and you're just a spoiled brat looking for attention. I'm surprised you've lasted this long amongst a lot of smart people on this site and the other site that put up with your childish antics. Grow up and stop ignoring people's advice.
I am not sure if you are a lawyer or not, I am not...so I can not pretend to KNOW the exact way any court or legal venue will view this. However, you are missing a few points. 1) CATS EXOTICS is not a "clearing" house. At no time did CATS EXOTICS KNOW that there was a leasing company involved till this last week when everyone got served and notified. SO for you to say we should have contacted the leasing company is obsurd...we had no idea..and at last look I have no crystal ball to tell me if there is a lien holder out there..ESPICALLY when there are no lien papers filed, no lien stamp on a title AND when the car was bought and sold at the going market price. I agree with you 110% if CATS KNEW the "possible" issue with the leasing company, or "smelled a rat" due to the low price not common to the market for the car, but that is not the case. 2) Yes we do have insurance to cover this. And yes, it may end up that way. But NO INSURANCE Company is just going to hand out a $110K check just cause you ask them...they need to have a reason to AND of course at this point they have none. They need to be sued, wheter it be by me or by Josh...but Josh has to start the ball rolling...and yes it will roll down hill. 3) However I dont know and I dont think you can say either with 100% certanty what a court will find the blame with. The Dealer that IS LICENSED and did do everything correctly and WAS NOT shaddy...or the leasing agent that FAILED to prepare his paperwork correctly and but "for his actions" we would not be here. 4) So how can I BE thought to pay all his money back and then ME go after someone, as you state, it IS A CHAIN and it has to start with Josh. 5) Josh has been told, via his lawyer, that I have no issue with him sueing me, he was encouraged to do just that so that my insurance company WILL get involved., but till he does that there is nothing I can do for him. Yes I could out of the kindness of my heart write him a check.. but I made the choice not to do that and have it take its course as it should, through the legal system. Last I take issue with your comments that we, made it a fast sell, top of this list...your take of the situation, as in-correct as it is...leads to believe that we are in "bed" with someone knowing all this aforehand and just sat back and laughed as we went to the bank with JOSHS Money and KNEW it would end up this way withhim...sir...total BS and I take offense to your insinuation that that is the case. AND FYI...as a point if FACT...CATS EXOTICS...acted as a broker in this transaction and profitted a whole $2500.00 WOW I am rich...
relief........thanks for everyone for your help......especially that last bit of legal advice. I am waking up 7am tomorrow and taking action........ thank you again
Mark, It was nice of you to put so much thought in your post. I have a question though from a legal perspective, How would Roy or the dealer in Vegas know to contact the leasing company if there wasn't a lien on the car? I doubt the expectation is to call every possible leasing / finance company just to insure they don't have a claim. I'm just trying to understand how a person or a dealer could safeguard themselves so you don't get in this mess. BTW- are you in CA? Maybe 360 could use your services?
Give me a break......you're waking up early tomorrow to do something about a car that was taken from you 3 days ago?....Right. Folks.....This guy is good.....he's playing all of us big time!.....either that.....or you're one dumb s.o.b.
Are you kidding us? Not to sound rude but you dont seem to bright.....are you one of those powerball winners? How the hell can you have the money to buy a Lambo and you dont know how to call an attorney or what kind to get....ONLY IN AMERICA!
No reason to be so rude. I think he's a young guy who is feeling pretty overwhelmed in the world of big-business. He's looking for a friend (lawyer and maybe some support here) to help him through. He's gotten sage advice. It's now up to him to take it from here. If he does as he's been advised, then likely he will get either his money back or the car back. It's all on his shoulders and I wish him well.
