Camshaft gun drilling source? | FerrariChat

Camshaft gun drilling source?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by mk e, Mar 27, 2008.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,857
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c
    I getting ready to make a set of billet cams for my frankenferrari engine and will need to get them gun drilled, does anybody know a good source for that service? In theory I could do it with the 90 degree head on my mill and I might, but if I can get it done somewhere quick and cheap that seems like a better way to go.
     
  2. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    I used to know a guy here that made barrels for reproduction muzzleloaders (haven't seen him in over 20 years). Try a local gunshop. The gunsmith that they use might have a setup for doing it.
     
  3. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    3,931
    CA and OR
    Full Name:
    pit bull
    How long and what size hole? Do they really need to be "gun drill' straight?

    I would think with just a normal lathe you could drill from one side, flip it round and drill from the other no? Just need to buy a long enough drill or make a shank extension depending on diameter.
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,407
    socal
    you doing the crank too? If you are going this far....
     
  5. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,857
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c
    Now stop that!

    I don't need that kind of help.....although now that you mention it, it's not too late to stroke it up to 6 liters I guess :)
     
  6. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,857
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c


    I haven't done the final design yet, but about 26" and about a 1/2 dia hole.

    I had the same thought. The problem is the diameter is too big to fit in the head of any lathe I have access to, so it would have to be sticking out 26" with a steady read holding it, then a 15" drill bit, and the tail stock and it's too long for the bed of any lathe I have access too. That's what brought me to the mill and the 90* head and I could easily drill it.

    It also begs the question of what happens at the center? The drilled holes will walk so they won't meet exactly in the middle leaving a step which is less than ideal. Maybe coming back through with a second drill would clean most of it up.
     
  7. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    On some camshafts that are hollow, some aircraft for example, the lobes are flame brazed onto hollow bar stock. That would allow you to use a much harder steel alloy on the lobes, and I believe thats why it was done on aircraft.
     
  8. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula 3

    Jan 9, 2007
    1,007
    Cape Town South Afri
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Pitty we don't live on the same continent ,I've got a 2,5m with 100mm spindle bore in my shop you could use that anyday you wanted .How big is the billet to get the lift you want .It was posted somewhere else that the 430 's(or one of the later Fcars ) lobes were press fitted onto the shaft ?
     
  9. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,857
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c
    That's the way it always goes....

    The billets are 2 3/8" (60.3mm). That is because of the sprocket drive design, not the lobes. 1.9" (48.3mm) would do it easily for the lobes. I might turn most of the OD down to under 2 1/8" to fit in the machine at work and do it that way. I'll have to think about it.
     
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,407
    socal
    ROMAO!
     
  11. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,857
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c
    I measured the hole size last night and it's 3/8".

    I think I'm going to try drilling it on the mill with a 5/16 in form both ends then through with a 3/8......or maybe just to straight in with the 3/8......so basically I haven't actually decided anything yet I guess :)
     
  12. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    3,931
    CA and OR
    Full Name:
    pit bull

    There's a part I do that's got a drilled hole with depth = 70x dia in some fairly hard drive shaft mat'l . .. you should be able to get a guy with a lathe to do that for you . .. I think mine has a 2.5" thru hole but you're not just 'round the corner.
     
  13. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,857
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c
    does it drill reasonably straight at the depth?.....70 depth/dia is exaclty the ration I'm talking about here.

    I was thinking of doing it on the mill instead of a lathe simply to let me use the power feed to let me run the bit out to clear the chips vs dragging the tail stock in and out.
     
  14. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    3,931
    CA and OR
    Full Name:
    pit bull

    It's a part I do on the mill . . . it's pretty straight but the drill is only .125" . ... still the depth/dia ratio you're talking about. I'd go from either end and let them intersect in the middle.

    Dragging the tail stock in and out will make a man out of you ;).

    Edit: when I say pretty straight gut feeling is within .01-.02"
     
  15. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,027
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
  16. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Deep drilling shafts has always been tricky business for me (I don't have a proper gun-drill). Without a hollow drill I'm not sure how you'll get coolant much past a few inches inside the hole much less keep chips clear and keep it even close to centered.

    Considering everything on your plate this might be one thing to outsource. It might not be really expensive to let someone else drill the blanks.
     
  17. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,857
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c
    If I could find a place with a gun drill I would consider sending it out...I just haven't found one yet.

    The hole could would about 1/4" before it would be a problem. I'm thinking I'll turn the OD on centers to match the hole once it's drilled. I can power feed the table to get the drill out and the coolant in.

    I could also drill from both ends as Sean suggested.
     
  18. 348paul

    348paul Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2002
    1,098
    Kent - UK
    Full Name:
    Paul Hill
  19. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
  20. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    3,931
    CA and OR
    Full Name:
    pit bull
    Also bore and chamfer each end after drilling and you'll have your centers back atleast for the length of your boring bar.
     
  21. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    3,931
    CA and OR
    Full Name:
    pit bull

    Yeah I used to think that . ... . paralysis by analysis ;) . .. being an engineer I sent my parts out for gun drilling . .. then someone with 40+ years manual machining experience started working for me and told me to go in the office where I belong and order a long drill ;). He's forgot more than I know about cutting metal :) . .. . but ask him to troubleshoot something electrical :).

    Something else to keep in mind. .. careful you don't heat treat/quench it with coolant down inside the oil . .. run it slow and maybe use tapping oil . .. the large bar stock will help as a heat sink . .. might want to do a few inches at a time from each and let the bar cool for heat sink purpose. Not a problem with CRS or aluminum but I think you're using alloy.

    http://www.shoprutlandtool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=38825

    1/4" dia 16" long drill to get you started ;) . .. old faithful McM only go to 12" . .. now get to work :).

    Sean
     
  22. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,857
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c
    MSC goes to 24" :)
     
  23. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,857
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c
  24. wildegroot

    wildegroot Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,522
    Frenchtown NJ
    Full Name:
    Wil de Groot
    Hey Mark,

    There's a gun drilling specialist in the Philadelphia area. I'll get you some information tomorrow. They do DEEEEP holes.

    I've been so busy that I got out of the habit of visiting here. Probably missed out on some great bench talk.

    Had my supercharged 308 at the Penn-Jersey "Spring Fever Run" yesterday. The twisty roads and the car were a blast! Somehow it tore a fairly new C.V. boot.

    Wil
     
  25. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    13,857
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    Help me get this thing finished! https://gofund.me/39def36c
    Thanks!

    On the CV boot, mine too, an inner...I think the heat from the headers gets them.
     

Share This Page