All good points and +1. My 430S should arrive in July and my GTR V-Spec in September so I will give comments firsthand later
Wow didn't know that the the V-spec will be out by then...very exciting news. I know they are testing it now.
Regarding the weight... Evo Magazine did a 0-100-0 run recently and it did outrun a MUCH lighter Corvette Z06. It did the same time around their test track as the Superlaggera. Again, this car is to compete with F430/ 997 Turbo. V-spec will aimed at all those lightweight versions out there (GT2, Scuderia etc.) so a GT-R vs Scuderia comparison is IMO not fair - not saying you claimed that.
430: FERRARI GTR: NISSAN FERRARI, Ageless. TOP resale value, and always turning heads. NISSAN: Like all Jap cars, it ages quickly. In just a few years, resale value will drop dramatically, and Saionara into oblivion. ______________________________ "Ferraris don't leak oil, they just mark their territory". Enzo Ferrari
Big words from a non-owner. I'm sure a Vette could give the 430 a run, too. But in the end, they're Vettes & GTR's on the used lot in your local auto mall... trounced by something that got a .01 faster time in Motor Trend... plastic trim warping in the sun... resale value GONE. They'll be like Mustangs & Vettes here in the US soon. Boring...
The R33-R34 Sylines hold their value quite well, at least here in the states when you can find one. Find one that's been built to the extreme, especially an R34, and expect to pay at least $60K for it. Also, don't forget what the older Skyline did on the Nurburgring. A Nissan will never be a Ferrari, and my allegiance lies with the 430, but for other reasons. The GT-R is huuuuuge, it's too technological (although Ferrari has unfortunately started to rely on electronics more and more), and it just doesn't have the same appeal. I could give a crap less if it's faster or slower--no one in their right mind would exploit either of these cars' full potential on the road. Give me an old 328 anyday and I'll enjoy the hell out of anything faster or newer--simply because I know it doesn't matter on the road.
That is not "holding value" - that is the price you pay for owning unobtainium. Those cars that slipped in under the DOT radar, thanks to the mishap of Motorex, will always be valuable. The illegal had legally.
What's the difference?? You're still paying top dollar for it, IOW, it's holding its value. I'd pay $100K for a Ferrari because of what it is, and I'd pay $60K for a Skyline for what it is. The Ferrari's appeal is that it's a Ferrari, the Nissan's appeal is that it's "illegal" and it's a big hitter. Either way your pocket book is empty. It doesn't matter what for.
The R33/34 argument is irrelevent, as neither car was officially offered by Nissan to the North American market. The numbers here are small and the conversion costs were huge to get them certified by MotoRX (?) etc. Of course when there are only a handful of cars here, the market will stay strong on them. Then again, I recall reading an article that stated the R34 GTR was close to $140,000 after certification. With the new GTR being a "normal" Nissan, expect the current premiums to fade after about a year and the GTR will just be another car... buy off the lot and watch it drop.
The production numbers will be much lower, I don't think it will be as common. The premium for these cars will go on for at least two years. Funny how a "common" car could wipe out a 200.000 $ exotic?
cars are not produced to hold value.....they are produced to be driven....i'd rather 'drive' and enjoy my car than think of its resale value......why would i buy a performance car to baby it in my garage to try and maintain its value... you would be missing out on all the fun these cars are produced for in the first place. though i would certainly not buy a GT-R, i'd love to try one.
I agree with the folks at 0-60 magazine. The Nissan GTR looks a lot better in person, including a tremedous amount of functionality in its design. They reckon it outperforms the Porsche 997 twin turbo on EVERY dimension, including looks and interior desigh. More than one test reports it can do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. The GTR is WAY MORE than just another Nissan with a powerpack. Its AWD, its got dual clutch paddle shifters, its awesome in the slalom. For an expected MSRP of $75K in the US versus 3X and probably 4X that amount for a 430S, the GTR is a mind bender. If I was worried about depreciation value I know where I'd put my money. IMHO, the GTR begs the Fowner or Fwannabee to shift out of their traditional paradigm and go grab one. At least that's whats happening to me and I own a CS.
I prefer light cars and I do not like AWD on a performance car. That's two stikes agains the Datsun. The styling and horrible interior/ergonomics make strike three.
Comparisions between the GT-R and the 430 are silly IMHO. Then again, the GT-R is being compared to just about everything. I have got one on order in the same color as the picture in an earlier post, and I should have it in July. It will make a nice replacement for my BMW 550i. If you feel this car is ugly, you clearly have not seen it in person. Also, some of you seem to be unaware that this is going to be a low production run car in the foreseeable future. I believe it's 1,400 or so cars in the US per year but not positive. I don't see it becoming commonplace or cheap anytime soon. Regardless, with a 0-60 time of 3.3 seconds according to Edmunds and considering everything else I've read about the car, I will take one anyway.
Imagine what will be said about the Scuderia compared to the GTR " 2009 Nissan GT-R: Awesome, But No Porsche 911 GT2 But Let's not forget the GT2 does cost almost $200k in all fairness... Article from MT ...Last week, between the mind-blowing instrumented tests Frank Markus was orchestrating on the 2009 Nissan GT-R, I finally got my first turn at the wheel of "Godzilla." Like you, for months (no, years!) I've been reading the pre-release buildup. A more hotly awaited automobile I cannot recall; such anticipatory mouth-foaming and hyperventilated ballyhoo I may never before have witnessed. If cars were compact discs, the GT-R would be a somehow-forgotten, recently unearthed, never-heard Beatles album set to release on the anniversary of John Lennon's death. My survival mantra for the foreseeable future: Never stand between a crowd of car enthusiasts and a GT-R. So at last I got to drive the sci-fi monster, the publicity idol, the Top Gun from Tochigi. And... The GT-R is, oh yes, a stunning car, a monumental feat of automotive engineering. I knew that the moment I climbed aboard: I haven't seen so many buttons since I rushed a preppy frat in college. With the twist of a few dials, you can summon more obscure and fascinating data than an immigration officer rifling through confidential passport files. Throttle-percentage graphs, acceleration and braking traces, lateral g's...I think the GT-R's displays can also chart your wife's fertility cycles and predict whether Mane Attraction is going to win, place, or show. When the engine is on, there's a constant, dim whine in the cabin -- perhaps it's the fuel pump, or maybe a cooling fan buried somewhere. It's not irritating; just reminds you that you're riding in something special, high-strung, a Learjet idling on the ramp. Shift the console lever into the manual gate, dip into the throttle, flick the right paddle a few times, and...that can't be right. The speedo says I'm doing...wow, is this thing fast. The "60 mph" marker is barely above the stop for "0 mph" -- about where you'd find "10 mph" or "20 mph" on a normal car. It's also way below, ahem, where the needle is hovering at the moment... The GT-R achieves speed like Laetitia Casta draws stares -- naturally, effortlessly, almost as if it doesn't realize how remarkable it is. The ride is quite good, even in its firm setting. Steering feel could be better, but for a big, heavy, four-wheel-drive car, the GT-R cuts a fine line. And even when driven hard, it's as cool and collected as an astronaut on the pad; with heroic feats to accomplish but the DNA and the moxie to pull them off with apparent ease. That it stickers for only about $70,000 is truly astonishing. For delivering so much at the price, the GT-R rightly deserves a seat atop the auto world's Olympus. And yet...to read much of the breathless prose surrounding the new Nissan, you'd think it was the Second Coming, the Greatest Sports Car of All Time. It isn't. Several weeks ago, I test-drove the new 2008 Porsche 911 GT2. Yes, the Porsche starts at $192,560, nearly three times the price of the GT-R. In a value fight, the Nissan wins in a runaway. But for those for whom cost is no object -- and there are many -- the Porsche delivers a driving experience the GT-R simply cannot match. I mentioned that the Nissan's steering feel could be better. The GT2's is near-perfection, your fingertips reading the tire treads like Braille, cornering forces building like a masseuse squeezing your trapezius muscles. And while the GT-R is blindingly quick, the GT2 is...otherworldly. True, at just 3.2 seconds the Nissan gets to 60 mph two tenths quicker -- thanks to four-wheel-drive traction and short gearing. But after that, all you can see from the GT-R is GT2 whale tail. By the time the Nissan reaches 100 mph (8 seconds flat), the Porsche has been there, done that (7.3 seconds). From that point on, the GT2 just disappears. As this graph shows, it doesn't take $190K+ to out-gun the already fabled GT-R. After 110 mph, the Corvette Z06, the Viper SRT10, and the Ford GT are all pulling away. As for "involving driving experience," the players at, say, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Lotus, Bugatti, and more have legitimate claims of superiority over the new GT-R. I remember a 1990 drive of a previous GT-R, the third-generation R32 Skyline edition, through the twisting, track-caliber mountain roads in Hakone, near Japan's Mt. Fuji. That car simply blew me away. With its screaming twin-turbo six and race-optimized four-wheel-drive system (featuring electronic torque split, like the contemporary Porsche 959's), the GT-R R32 was better than almost anything else I'd ever driven up to that time -- at any price. I left Japan awestruck, my notions of what a sports car could be changed by that first-ever encounter with Godzilla. Now, having met Godzilla a second time, I'm impressed once again -- more than anything, by the incredible civility and performance the GT-R delivers for the money. But I've driven better cars. As all the klieg lamps now turn Nissan's way, it's worth remembering not to get blinded by the light."
I recall a film made 7 years ago, showing a 355 wiped out by a Toyota with a bunch of parts "overnighted... from Jah-pannn" LOL. OLD NEWS I'll be surprised if that number happens... the 305Z Nismo is $40,000 loaded. Also, I'd expect stealerships to price gouge for the entire first year.
I really love this car. I think it's borderline ridiculous to complain about the "hit" new GTRs are going to take-- in my mind, that's the beauty of a GTR over a Ferrari: I can buy it just after it takes a major depreication hit, say @40k miles, it's still in pristine shape and I am only going to lose say $10-15k to put another 50k miles on it! It sure wont be a garage queen, I'd call her more of a track-whore In addition, by the time these cars have some miles on them, there will be plenty of people like us out there who have made the software truly passive-- reading back how we drive, but not dictating it. There will be numerous ways of eliminating all the obnoxious techno gadgets that those pure drivers have no interest in, and you will be left with a rocket, that is safe and stable at a very wide range of speeds. If, in 4-5 years, I can get a GTR with 40k miles for say $35k, do some techno-deleting, intake/exhaust/tires/mild suspension and have a car that is blistering fast, can handle rain and [if need be] snow, facilitates Japanese reliability and something that I can play around with on the weekends.... I AM IN! There isn't another car on the road right now that I am really looking forward to seeing come down in price.
