Massa Support Thread

I know we're going on a tangent here but back in 2006 on the cool down lap after the Brazilian GP there was a radio transmission from the Renault pits to Alonso where Fernando's engineer congratulated him on the 2006 WDC and wished him luck in his new team. Fernando answered back and wished Renault good luck "AS LONG AS THEY DIDN'T PAINT THE CARS RED".

Alonso is a great driver and a fierce competitor but now that he has burned his bridges at Mclaren and Renault can't win again he wants to be in the Red Cars that he hated so much in 2006??

If I was in charge of Ferrari I'd say thanks but no thanks to Mr. Alonso and take my chances on a young and upcoming driver like Vettel that is if Massa cant do his job anymore .

 

Schumi was never in a situation that a teammate was that close. Schumi built Ferrari for himself and would not have allowed another driver, and a quick one at that, to have the same position within the team. Ferrari operated differently in the Schumi era than McLaren, and would have backed their champion, as McLaren should have. Be it because he only wanted slow teammates or not is another argument. We don't know how he would have reacted in Alonso's boots and we never will. Who's a better man than whom, is only your or my opinion. I agree that he was a smarter man to avoid such things however, but he might have had a hissy fit if it happened to him too.

 

Ron,

It's equally un-funny as the Alonshole and McCheater terms, and IIRC (and I do) those lasted for MUCH longer than 2 races. Actually they are still in use, many months later.

It's all in good fun - I do hope Massa does well, the best of luck to him. There is just a disconnect between you and I and our views on his talent. I hope you don't get upset over it because I know that Massa will have some great races this season and I *know* there are a few of you just itching to rub all our noses in it - and that's OK, fair's fair. But it just so happens that the anti-Massa crowd got the first go, because Felipe is 0 for 2 at the moment. I am sure he is due for a few great performances, and I know you will be there to tell us about them

Good luck Felipe (try to keep it on the track)

 

Agreed...

 

I will also say that it makes me laugh that the Massa haters are so inclined to replace him...but only with the cream of the crop. Alonso, Vettel (not cream yet, but very talented), ect. Would it make everyone happy if he was replaced by the likes of Trulli, Sato, Webber, Sutil, ect, who have never won anything? Probably not. Yeah, it would be great to have an Alonso talent alongside a Raikkonen, but thats like having John Elway backed up by Dan Marino. It would be great, but aren't we all getting a little greedy here fellas.

Massa is a good driver...a great driver no. But good enough to be in the Scuderia as a number two. Has everyone forgot that he did well enough last year to not only come close to winning the WDC, but to help his team enough to put them in the position to win the Constructors as well...

Oh yeah, and what did Alonso do to "help" his team last year...I think we all know the answer to that.

I'm not a huge Massa fan. Mixed emotions on him. But I will say this. To all of you Massa haters who spend all of your time on this board bashing him, remember this...he races for YOUR F@#$ING team! Show some support

 

nice post

 

Hey Michael, I only get upset when certain people start questioning my sanity or what I'm smoking. Its like you can't take the unpopular position here without getting blasted. I am not going to say anything about Massa's achievements this year until the end of the season. I have been trying to get some these self righteous individuals to just look at statistics, they speak for themselves. Massa has done a really good job for the team, he deserves his seat.

Anyway, not going to rub anything in anyone's nose. Don't have to. Since Lewis wrecked his car in morning practice today, I guess we should all go on a dump Lewis campaign, God forbid a driver makes a mistake trying to go fast. Afterall, some people here think Hamilton is invincible. Its OK for Lewis to beach his car and lose the WDC, wreck in practice, but if Massa has a bad day, people forget his statistics and call for his head.

Hypocracy runs rampant.
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I agree with some of your post but I'm unclear on certain things. As far I remember, Massa finished 4th behind all the other title contenders. That doesn't sound like coming close to winning the WDC. As far as he being good enough to be a number two at Ferrari, I don't know about about that. A number two driver's main function is to finish 2nd to the team's number one driver. How can you do this if you're spinning off the track? A number two is supposed to back up and finish as close as possible to the number one and take away points from rival teams and secure points for the constructors title. Ferrari only won the constructors title last year because McLaren got kicked out otherwise they would have been second.

As far as what Alonso did for McLaren last year, your memory is a bit short there too. McLaren was nowhere in 06. When Alonso came to the team, his feedback and technical skill helped develop the car into a title contender.

As far as supporting the team, I do, which is why I'd rather see a more consistant driver in the second car than Massa. While it would be great to see Alonso vs Kimi in 09, a driver that stays on the track would be helpful too. You can't help win a construtors title from the grass after spinning after you hit a curb that changed the configuration of the car, which, of course was not his fault......

 

If you recall, going into the second half of the season, Kimi and Felipe were practically in a dead heat to be the "number 1" for the year. And only after a few situations, I can't remember the specific races, did the team focus on getting Kimi to the line first. The only problem that I really have with Massa is that the team doesn't treat him like a true #2 driver because of his relationship with Schumi. And in my opinion, that's the reason he will get many more chances this year, even if he does continue to have problems.

As far as Alonso, he was instrumental in the spying scandal with McLaren. He knew exactly what was going on, recieved e-mails on the info, and more than likely helped with the development of the braking system or whatever else was improved. But as soon as the team got caught, he was running for the door. Basically trading immunity for himself by selling out his own team.

Is he a great driver - of course. Was he instrumental in helping the McLaren engineers improve the car - probably. But we are two races into the 08 season and he is already hinting that he is going to leave Renault next year if the "car isn't competitive." Yeah, that's the type of player that I want on all my teams...

 

Gilles was the man.

That said Massa is the only driver whom I've put money on to win the WDC.
I liked the odds. ( should have backed that up with a Heiki bid ).
After you are put in the best car with similar driving skills (I rate Kimi 9.9, Massa 9.2) it comes down to pure racing luck.
Massa's has been bad but will improve.

 

It was a dead heat going into the halfway point but that's why we run all the races don't we? By the end of the year Kimi had Felipe covered 11 to 5. The team started to focus on Kimi towards the end when Felipe was out of contention.

You are reaching quite a bit on the Alonso thing. All there is proof of, is that he did know about the documents and he did suggest that they try the Ferrari's weight distribution in the simulator, nothing else. You make it sound like he went, stole the documents and gave them to Coughlin himself. He was not the only, or even the main person involved. (I refuse to believe Hamilton didn't know, why would DeLaRosa and Alonso know, but not him? I call BS on that one but again there is no proof otherwise). Everything else you suggested is hearsay on your part. If he is cooperating with this stupid Italian mess they are creating, fine, what would you, or any of us do if threatened with jail time or the like?

As far as being a team player, no one in Formula One is a team player (don't start with "the MS was" stuff, that's a long argument that we've all had 100 times on here, if the team is built around you, it's pretty easy to be a team player). It is natural for a competitor to look for a better car, you're not going to stay in a crap car in the midfield just because the team is nice, if you have a more competitive option. This is after all, a sport. Winning is the only thing that matters.

 

I actually agree with you somewhat here. But let me elaborate my point. Yes, they did switch the focus to Kimi, which was a smart move. He's a superior drive. I am saying that Massa is good enough to be in the championship hunt, even if it was only halway through the season. And he did lose concentration, but don't forget that his race wins and finishes throughout the whole season to kept Ferrari in contention, even before the McLaren scandal.

As for McLaren...did Hamilton know about it? @#$% yea he did. The whole team did. Can you imagine anybody in the higher positions on that team not knowing. All that I'm saying is that Alonso turned on the team after his issues with Dennis and Hamilton. First rule in team sports, keep your mouth shut to the public. With this sport, I'm can imagine that there aren't too many of these drivers who actually get along, even amongst teamates. Drivers stay with a team for only a short time, not long enough to actually bond with their "teammate." There are exceptions of course.

And for the Schumacher quote, couldn't agree with you more. He was great to the organization, but not so much to other drivers. Thats what makes him so hated...but also feared. And he won..alot. Which gives a driver a lot of grit to do whatever he really wanted.

 

Did I say this before? I like Massa. If he contains his emotions, he will win the WDC.

 

And he will

 

Ok, so we agree in principle at least. Now we're getting somewhere, lol. I think Massa has too many flaws to have the Ferrari ride, period, it's as simple as that. He never showed anything in this career that proved him worthy. He was beaten by all his teammates, save JV. He got the ride because he was no threat to Michael and the thinking was that he could be molded in a more consisant driver, if not a Word Champion, I feel. He seems to be blazing quick over one lap but loses something in the race and doesn't seem to do too well under pressure. Championships are lost that way, not won, this is a serious flaw. I guess the team hoped he would progress but he seems to be repeating mistakes. To me, and a few others, he's sqandered an opportunity of a lifetime. This is why many are angry with him. I feel that the team would be better served to put either a proven winner (Alonso) to create an unbeatable combination, or a younger guy that shows talent (Rosberg, Vettel, Kubica, etc). Massa has only proven he's reached the peak of his potential and can do no better than an occasional brilliant performance (Brazil 06)

As far as Alonso goes, he threatened to go public with the whole thing, he didn't actually do it. If you remember he apologised to Ron Dennis after he made the statements and took everything back. Ron Dennis was the one that made Alonso's part in the scandal public, not Alonso. Was that the nicest thing to do? No it wasn't, but he realised he had spoken in the heat of the moment and was wrong. Now was it something any other driver would have done to cement thier position in the team? Hell yes, I wouldn't put it past anyone on the grid right now. Hell, I would have done in in his positon. He's no more or less moral than Senna, Prost, Mansell, Schumi, etc. Any one of them would had done it in that position.

Lastly, we agree on MS, but Alonso also won alot before getting to McLaren and expected the same treatment that MS had enjoyed at Ferrari. Chances are he would have gotten it had it not been Hamilton in the other car. It was not illogical for him to expect to be the team leader being that he was a two time champ and Hamilton was a rookie. MS would have never stood for that and would likely have had a fit too. To what extent he would have carried that we'll never know so further comparisons are impossible.

 

My next prediction:

If Massa wins the 2008 WDC, there will be all sorts of uneducated comments on this forum as to how it was all just luck. Denial is not a river in Egypt, except here on FChat.

Right Jane, I mean Ted?

;}

 

I think you are way off base to think he's mediocre. Massa is the real deal. Kimi went through a hell of a lot of the same stuff with Mac before winning with Ferrari that Felipe has endured. His day will come and I for one pull for him ahead of Kimi every race but at least I pull for both unlike some here. If he was mediocre, I can assure you Ferrari would have never hired him in the first place.

Get real, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

 

I agree with you, but no use wasting your time and energy trying to convince anyone here. Statistics show Massa is deserving of his ride, personal prejudice is hard to overcome, denial even worse.

I certainly would not support Massa if the stats didn't support him, its all black and white to me (please, this was not a racial comment).

 

Kimi was never beaten by his teammate consistanly as Massa has been. So far Massa has lost to Heidfeld, Fisi, MS, Kimi. He's only beaten JV. And by two points at that.

Kimi was never beaten by a teammate. JPM was his only threat, and even then he was inconsistant too.

 

Is this the right thread, pro Massa thread?

Did I say this before, I don't remember?

Massa deserves his seat at Ferrari. Massa will win the WDC.

 

Care to make a wager on that, Ron?

 

I can't believe that I'm actually going to agree on this topic. You made some great points and I agree with you. He has squandered an opportunity that anyone in the racing community would give their left leg for.

We can agree to disagree on the Alonso situation though. lol Alonso and Kimi on the same team could not and should not happen. It can't happen because of salaries (Alonso's 51 mil is going to be a problem), and shouldn't happen because of ego's. Putting the two, arguably, best drivers in the world on the same team would mean one of two things - someone is going to have to be a number 2 - or, they will have to race against each other. I think either situation puts Ferrari in a bad position.

It would be a dream team on paper, but in a real life situation, I don't think it can work. Just my opinion...

 

Alonso and Kimi will only work if Luca wants it (I understand he does) and if everyone can keep the ego's in check. Ferrari has the resources to run two top cars. Alonso know's that Kimi is his equal and it would be a straight fight between them. They seem to have a mutual respect for each other. It wouldn't be a replay of McLaren 07, i feel. Either way i'd love to see it play out....: )