DIY 360 clutch replacement

Robbin, you've made JS 3 sets of custom pipes??? Impressive!
Any pics? I'd think they must be top shelf for him to install them on his cars.

 

WOW..... after seeing this I am humbled... but I did put some washer fluid in my car once........

 

Intimidating, but also educational. I think I'd rather spend all day doing back-to-back double valves and pay Shelton the six grand. At least I could do those without a shop manual.

- Joe

 

Bill,

Have you had a chance to try out the newly lined clutch? How does the feel/performance compare to the OE clutch?

Cheers.

 

Ive only had a few days to play with the car lately . first I thought there was a major problem like the slave cylinder leaking but I found out that it was a cracked bleeder block thanks to some help from Daniel at Ricambi . The Kevlar clutch slipped a bit at first which worried me but after about 20 miles the thing is tight as hell . Its so smooth its crazy compared to the stock one .
I dont get the first gear jerks anymore and the acceleration is great . All in all i find it to be a huge improvement over stock .
Iam going to put one in my 355 now .

 

Dude! You could have called! I sat by the phone for days, like a nervous schoolgirl waiting for your call.

The Hill Engineering fluid block solved your problem? Sweeet!

 

Any chance you could give a quick summary of the costs of DIY vs. dealer fix?

I'd think if you told a dealer to "replace the clutch... and while you're at it, upgrade it to Kevlar" I bet it wouldn't be cheap.

 

you guys will put me out of business. Daniel, stop helping people do there own clutches !!!!!!!!!!
But seriously Really well done, these cars are not rocket science and conrats on a great thread and having the nuts to take it on yourself. Truly well done.

Here is a pic of when "Clutches go Bad".................
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Fantastic thread.
Bill, what did you use for a clutch alignment tool?

 

Is it the second to last image in the "pictures" response?

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137510820&postcount=65

 

I think the second to last picture refers to the tool Bill made to get to the "pins" that hold the throwout bearing on, based on a picture from Rifledriver.

I asked about the clutch alignment tool (a short equivalent of the shaft from the gearbox that enters the splined hole in the middle of the clutch) because I noticed one on the Web at some ridiculously high price and would like to know if there's an inexpensive alternative -- just in case I ever do this someday!!

 

Hey, i've knocked clutch aligner tools up from wooden broom handles before! I have my own old 360 one i knocked up in a lathe about five years back froma bit of solid steel bar, just measure it all up and any machine-shop should be able to make you one...

 

Exactly. A broom handle and some masking tape (to increase the diameter where necessary).

 

Bill (or others), any update on how the Kevlar clutches are working out??

 

I'd like to know, too, as my OE is starting to go and will need to do something in the near future.

Is kevlar suppose to last longer than OE; is that the reason to do this?

 

In theory it should be a smoother, longer lasting disk. I'd also like to know how it worked out.

 

3 weeks after my request for info on the kevlar clutch I'm able to give my own account...

The backstory is that I was having a routine 5k service on my '01 360 Spider F1 at the independent shop, dropped off a week before I was to leave drive from NC to Toronto for the FCA annual meet. A couple days after the shop got the car they took a look and saw that my clutch material thickness was fine but that I had cracks forming in the material and it would be risky to drive the car to Canada and back, especially with the track time at Mosport in my plans.

This was on Tuesday morning, 7/1. I have to thank Apex Vintage in Raleigh, NC and HR clutch in Pennsylvania for coming thru for me...HR was closing 7/4 and was to be closed the following week as well. The clutch issue was a very unwelcome surprise.

Terry at Apex spent all of Tuesday removing the clutch disc and pressure plate, then next-dayed it to HR who resurfaced the clutch in kevlar (and resurfaced pressure plate) and got it out next-day air by the time they closed on Thursday. Apex received it first thing Monday morning, knowing that I needed the car back Tuesday so that I could drive 900 miles to Canada. Terry spent Monday getting it back together...and Tuesday trying to get the PIS setting correct for the new kevlar clutch.

Setting the PIS was very difficult because the kevlar is a different friction surface and was not behaving the same as the regular Ferrari clutch. He adjusted and test-drove the car multiple times before handing it over to me Tuesday night at 6pm. We didn't know at the time whether or not a "break-in" was to be expected.

To start my review...

-When newly installed, the clutch felt a world different than stock. It was way too smooth which I now realize is because it was subtley slipping when shifting. At higher rpms, it was less subtle. For a while I thought it felt really good but soon realized that it was just because of the slippage.

(continuing back story, I drove 400 miles that night into the wilderness of West Virginia, in extreme storms...my iPod connection and satellite radio were both not working, leaving me with AM radio in the mountains which is another story...needless to say this part of the trip really sucked as I drove in hard rain for mile after mile with no entertainment and water coming into the cabin!)

As time went on the slippage got to be less and less prevalent and the clutch started to feel more normal again. By the time I got to Toronto Wednesday afternoon, I had 900 miles on the car and it felt about 70% normal. The vast majority of that time was riding in 6th gear so I really hadn't been using the clutch much.

Come Saturday, I went to the track event as planned. After 1 session I'd say the clutch started to feel about 100% normal since it finally got fully broken in.
I ended up running hard for 3 sessions at Mosport and the clutch behaved just fine, no heat-induced slipping to speak of.

The rest of the trip, the clutch felt basically the same it had before the clutch job. I now have about 3700 miles on the kevlar clutch and it is clearly broken in now.

However, I will note one thing...I let 2 friends drive my car separately during my trip (which included other stops in Cleveland, New York, side trips, etc). Both race BMWs but were not used to an F1 transmission and were naturally not used to the "right" way to drive the car around town to minimize clutch usage. While riding with the friends in each instance, I did notice that their around-town driving habits with the unfamiliar F1 box apparently caused more heat to build up because there was perceptible slippage that was not present after the car cooled down and I drove it again. This seems to be the only scenario where I've noticed the kevlar clutch slipping more than normal.

My basic comments:
-Kevlar clutch absolutely takes some time to break-in
-Once broken-in, it feels basically the same as stock
-On track, it did not get too hot or slip
-Tentative around-town driving will cause the clutch to heat up and slip when shifting

Other details:
-HR Clutch charges about $700 to resurface the clutch in kevlar and pressure plate. Your local shop will likely mark that up to $900-$1000.
-HR Clutch will also resurface the clutch and pressure plate in organic material, similar to stock, for a similar/same fee.
-HR Clutch's normal turnaround is 3 days


Overall, my purpose in going with the kevlar clutch was to get maximum longevity and that of course remains to be seen...however I am pleased so far.

 

Did the clutch friction/feel change anymore?

 

bump.
Yes, any word?

 

Quick update...

I just had another 5k service on the 360 (now at 40k) miles and the tech took a peek at the clutch thru the inspection hole. He said there was no visible wear on the clutch after 5k miles (and 1 track day). He said the SD-5 was bouncing between readings of 10 and 14% but also said to not put any stock in that number at all...it has basically no wear to speak of.

 

HR Clutch - what is this? who sell it?

 

Go to post #51. Or google search...

 

It was a long time ago but the contact I had was Joe at HR Clutch in Pennsylvania: (877) 639-7150