360 F1 Upshifting Technique

I have a 99 360 F1 and have only had a couple opportunities to drive it this year. I have noticed that when upshifting at high RPMS, >7k or so, seem very rough/hard. This can be smoothed out with minimally lifting on the throttle during upshifts. The manual does not suggest this technique, but I learned to do this on my M3. Anyone else have any input?

 

If you have Sport Mode switched on, when you're shifting in the upper RPM range (7500RPM and higher), your car should "speed shift" as you upshift. It's a much faster shift than when not in sport mode and not on the gas. Thinking back to my year 2000 360, I don't remember it being rough or hard... just fast.

Are you lifting your foot off the gas when you're shifting? If so, it's not required. Keep your foot in it and let the car's electronics manage everything else.

Frank

 

+1

 

I drove a 2003 360 F1 and didn't experience any jerk / jolt when shifting at high rpm. it's was flashed with new tranny programming though. ditto on using sport mode. it's great when you are going fast. very seamless.

 

I always use Sport Mode. Have not even tried "normal" mode. I think it may be time to consider CS TCU upgrade.

 

haven't even gotten my car yet, and already plan to do this the first week I have it

 

Just a suggestion - but I would drive the car for a while before doing the TCU upgrade. You may find it works just fine for you. I've been very happy with the way my '00 shifts. I keep it in Sport Mode and tend to shift under power. Note: It really shifts better if you are on the gas a fair amount. Shifts under either low power or high power are better than light throttle.

 

sounds good

 

if u normally drive like a grandma like me and shift at low rpms, when u always drive this way...and then suddenly u shift it at high rpm, the f1 will be a little jerky at first. if u keep continuing to drive the 360F1 hard and not drive like a grandma, the ecu will eventually learn your driving technique and shift faster for you.

 

OK, thanks for the input. I will continue to 'teach' the TCU how I drive. I have to say that I have had many street cars and race cars...but the auditory feedback from this 360 is unlike anything I have driven. Everything else is secondary to me. This is gonna be a fun driving season!

 

Couldn't agree more!!

 

I curious 'how it learns the way you drive'? Does the Ecu have artificial intelligence? I don't think so. I think the ecu programming has been built on a set of rules like all computers and that code was written by humans. I am pretty sure that the ecu firmware is pretty basic programming and kinda doubt it's got 15million lines of code in there that it would need to contain a semblence of 'AI'. Maybe your experience has been different than mine, but basically mine shifts exactly the same whether I shift it below 7000rpm all the time or if I drill it and shift above. <<If rpm<7000, then set shift speed at 1sec.>>, <<If rpm>7000, then set shift speed at .250sec.>>. Of course the code has got to be more complicated than that, as there are more contingencies to code for, but not too much more I would say.(caveat: I have never coded for a car ecu before, but probably similar to other hardware device code)

Hunter

 

Ferraris test drivers suggest this technique to get smoother shifts. I´ve been told that in person from one of them.

However when shifting at high rpm´s in sportmode, shifts will be alot faster. Is that what you mean ?

Forget that the car learns how you drive. It does have some very basic "AI" though. After resetting the system it will teach itself for a few minutes.

 

It's a Ferrari man, it's like - wicked smart.

 

I have never bothered trying the Sport Mode since I don't race the car and pretty much obey speed limits everywhere (within reason!) Could someone tell me when or why I would NOT want to use Sport Mode? Should I just leave it in Sport or what? (There is also a button below the Automatic "A" button on the console that shows a graphic of a car with skid marks behind it...where does that come in?)

 

+1....LOL

 

Did you receive a owners manual when you purchased the car?? If you did I really suggest you spend some time reading the whole thing, I have read mine several times and it will answer all the questions you have regarding the car.

I always drive in "sport" mode, this will provide the longest life span for your clutch. There is the least amount of slippeage in the clutch in "sport" mode. Wanna kill the clutch quick, drive in "auto" mode. Lastly, the button below the "auto" button is the "low grip" function switch.

Robert

 

In a 360, &#8220;Sport Mode&#8221; quickens the shifting but stiffens the suspension.

The shifting is clearly superior in &#8220;Sport Mode&#8221;. In subdued street driving it&#8217;s almost smoother in addition to slightly quicker. In spirited or track driving, it&#8217;s even better. The downside to &#8220;Sport Mode&#8221; is the clearly rougher and noisier ride.

Like you I mostly drive in &#8220;Normal Mode&#8221; except for spirited jaunts on a winding road. The consistently smoother ride is worth it and &#8220;Normal Mode&#8221; shifting is certainly nice and smooth if I stay on the throttle and drive it the way Enzo intended.

I disagree with E60 M5 about "Auto" mode -- it uses exactly the same software for shifting as "Normal Mode" so clutch wear is exactly the same. I also disagree that "Normal Mode" shifting significantly affects clutch wear -- all knowledgeable people I've heard insist clutch wear is pretty much the same between "Sport" and "Normal" mode. Driver style has a much greater affect on clutch life than which mode is used.

As for the "Low Traction" button -- stay away period. It is intended for driving in extremely slippery conditions by constantly slipping the clutch so traction is never lost. Imagine what it does to your clutch.

 

DING....DING.....DING


WE have a winner.

Someone who understands it.


All true every word.

 

BUUUUZZZZZZZZZZZZ.


Wrong answer.

Sorry better luck next time.

The ecu programming is set and has no adaptive strategy.

 

Well, DING, DING, DING, back at ya! The original owner of my 360 didn't make it 8k miles in auto mode, fact! Had to replace the clutch and all at a cost of $7k. I have had 1% drop by SD3 measurements over the last 1.5 yrs driving in sport and on several track days, over 9k miles.

Try shifting at 5500 rpms in sport mode for a smooth shift. Driver style is the only thing that affects clutch wear??? HUH?? You are saying there is no difference between modes, and the amount of time the clutch is engaged and disengaged??

The experts on the east coast would tend to disagree, and my dad can beat up your dad.



Robert

 

I love the alpha male ego in this forum...

 

And he probably would not have made it any further in manual mode either. Hardly a scientifically conducted test.

I have a car that comes here that gets regular use of Auto and he lives in the hills as well. The car has 125k miles on it and is only on its 3rd clutch as a result of a failed oil seal which saturated the second clutch at about 60% wear.

Small difference between Sport and Standard no question and no reason not to select Sport in Auto.

 

Hi Robert. I’m sure your facts are accurate but I would suggest the conclusions you’ve reached may be incomplete. I suspect the original owner of your car would have needed a new clutch in the same 8K miles if he had shifted with the paddles the whole time. I think the majority of clutch wear comes at starting from a standstill which is completely unaffected by who decides when to make the first shift (i.e., the computer in “Auto” mode or the driver with paddles). Perhaps he tried to help the system at startup and during shifting by modulating the throttle as suggested earlier in this thread, thereby confusing the system into unnecessary clutch slipping.

OTOH, I speculate that you are a considerably more experienced and knowledgeable driver using much better technique since you’ve obviously read the manual and take great care of your car. I bet you move briskly from a standstill and always shift cleanly without modulating the gas. On your occasional track day I bet you drive hard but smart and don’t abuse the car – exactly as intended by Enzo. I suggest the reason you’ve had minimal clutch wear is that your driving style is far superior to that of the original owner.

By the way, I’ve observed exactly the same thing about the incredibly butter-smooth shifting around 5500 RPM in Sport mode. It isn’t all that different from Normal mode but just enough quicker to be really impressive. It’s really a great car, isn’t it? I’ve always been impressed with the level of sophistication achieved by Ferrari in their F1 transmission technology. I think the car takes great care of itself except for an occasional unknowledgeable (or uncaring) driver.

 

Jim,
I agree the technology in my '99 360 F1 system is just as good (at least to me) as my '06 M5 SMG. The shifts might be slightly faster in the E60 at WOT, but for everyday driving the car is great! I was really surprised and considering all the SMG problems they had at BMW with an '06 car I am even more impressed with my F1 system! Truly, one of the things I worried about before purchasing my 360 was the life of the clutch and/or the life of the F1 system itself. I would also agree that clutch modulation on take off lends itself to a greater amount of wear and that this is probably where 85% of clutch wear comes from on the F1 system.

John,

No egos, just an open discussion about a topic. Its called humor/sarcasm and has nothing to do with ego, actually I was trying to bring some levity to the conversation with my comment. This will always be a civil and constructive forum, if you were offended, my apologize.

Robert