What's the market?

It's true that you must finance for one year. It stops the flippers so I would think in the long run it would hurt resale. I'm not lawyer so I cannot comment on the legality.

 

What about when you are writing a check for the whole thing? I don't see how that would be legal..

 

I believe it is indeed legal because IIRC, they did the same with the F50 in the mid 90s. They were not sold to customers, they were leased. I could be off a bit, but I've read that or something like it several times throughout the years on Fchat.

 

It probably isn't legal but I don't know if anyone has challenged yet. FNA won't let you write a check for the whole thing. You must finance a minimum of $50K.

 

My memory is fuzzy on what really happened with the F50. I recall that one customer did challenge the legality of the lease and won in court. Ferrari knew they couldn't try the same thing with the Enzo and that's why ownership of the Enzo was invite only by Ferrari.

 

I've heard the same thing.

 

Ferrari factory only allowed one American to get his F50 without a lease arrangement. That owner asked for and received the serial number 3 F50 built. This matched his Jaguar race car which was also serial number 3.
CH

 

Why would it be illegal? Why should they be forced to sell their cars? It's their product.

All they have to do is write up a contract and say they won't sell you one without you signing. Once you sign, you are legally held to it. Hell, Ferrari could decide to only rent their cars if they wanted.

 

Also, would one year really make a big difference? I'm still seeing 2-3 year F cars selling way high.

 

sounds like the F40/F50 days, which means the 599 = instant keeper

 

hello,

the F50 lease has been brought up here before. i believe it was disclosed that, when the exotic car market crashed in 1990-1991, many "investors" were suddenly upside down on their F40's. they got out of their situation by using the lemon law (parking brake issues, i believe) the dealers had to refund them the purchase price, not the m.s.r.p.

ferari did the 24 month lease on the F50 to prevent this from happening again, as you couldn't make a manufacture buy back a car they still owned.

joe.

 

I don't doubt that the 599 is a keeper! But, you can't even THINK of it in the same vein as the F40 and F50. More 599's were built in the first year of production than the COMBINED TOTAL production of the F40/F50! It will depreciate just like any other Ferrari and that will speed up when its replacement comes out. There is nothing "limited" about the 599 production other than the company has decided it wants people to have to wait for their car so as to keep some level of exclusivity. From the current discussions though it sounds like there is no 1 year wait on these cars currently... so while very expensive it sounds like a well heeled enthusiast could stop by his local F-car dealer and order one up and expect to have it in a few months time...what 6 or 8 months now???

 

I don't think they built 1600 (1300+349) 599's last year. 12's are about 10-15%, so with what, 6k cars, that is about 6-800 cars +/- 612's.
599 will drop, but I don't think we'll see such a blatant car from Ferrari in future.
Waits around here are still 2y. I hear of shorter waits, but haven't had real confirmation of short ordered car availability.
Dealers and FNA want flips to go through them, not brokers. Dealers lose allocation of next 599 if someone buys it and flips <1yr. There is a ROFR letter from FNA some have signed, my dealer requested, but did not push it.
Finance is just way to control flips with title lien. 90% cash deals in old days, dunno breakdown now.

 

LOL, no offense, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

"Nothing limited about the 599?" On average, each Ferrari dealership gets allocated single digit (as low as 5 in some cases) 599s per year. That doesn't constitute limited?

I can't speculate on every dealership throughout the US, but I know my local one has a waiting list that FAR exceeds how many more they'll receive during production. I would be VERY surprised if anybody can walk into a dealership in the USA, order one up and have it within 2 years of that date. Many dealerships will tell you straight up that there is no chance of getting one if you're not already on the list.

 

I like the 599.

as for the vein as the F40/F50 you are correct. But the 599 is IMO from what I've seen and heard is a great car and holds its own in its own venue.

What I was trying to state was the lease Ferrari required on the F40/50 models was a means to keep it from being flipped. If I have that incorrect, someone enlighten me because I thought it was not due to the exotic crash as I've heard it but rather keeping people from taking advantage of the low supply.

 

599 build slots are sometimes up for "bid" from dealers. I was just offered a July slot, for a premium. My original slot wasn’t due until late this year. - Tim

 

No offense taken Jeff. I don't have the cash that all you big dogs have so I will NEVER be on ANY list for a new Ferrari or any other super expensive exotic. All I was trying to convey is that the 599 will be built for many years to come and they will build them and build them and then build some more of them. They have not and will not say we are building X number of cars and that is it. Of course Ferrari has a tendency to up those numbers anyway. 349 F50's....ooops 399 F50's. Not sure what the numbers were for the F40, but I know it went WAY beyond what they had initially stated they would build much to the chagrin of many early buyers!

The 599 will be built to the tune of what 5000 cars over the life of the model? Maybe more??? FOR SURE it will be built till its replacement is ready to go...that has NEVER been the case with the Halo cars like the F40/F50/Enzo... Therefore the 599 is not a LIMITED production car. It is limited because Ferrari chooses not to build very many of them, yes, but they are not saying they WON'T build more than a certain number... That is all I was saying.

James
Austin, TX

 

They built 3.5k Maranellos or so worldwide. Limited production is relative. 13000 360's. 1300 F40's, 400 Enzos, 349 F50. 272 288's. Enzo's, etc. obviously had more buyers than cars, hence market price.
SLR's, CGT's are limited production, and they have done poorly in market (CGT is actually a pretty good buy used).

599 is production car, but built to order, not to spec. Many of us who have 599's don't care if they depreciate or not. Maranellos, 456, 612, none are thick on the ground. So I doubt 5k 599's will be built. 600/year will take 8+ years. Doubt car like 599 will be saleable much longer than 4-5 more years in today's politicoeconomic climate. But is sure fun driving mine while I wait.

 

I agree. The majority of 599 owners that I know have no intention of selling them. It may very well turn out to be the most driven contemporary V12 from Ferrari simply because it is without a doubt the most competent car Ferrari has ever built. I can't imagine how Ferrari could make a quantum leap forward from the 599. Certainly they can add bells and whistles, like a real nav system, a much better stereo with satellite radio, keyless ignition etc, but the fundamental engineering and execution of the car is state of the art in its class right now. That's why the waiting lists are long and constant. The word is out about this car. It is the real deal.

 

I hear ya. You are right about it not being limited when compared to the Enzo, F50, etc..., which have pre-determined production numbers before the first one is ever built. I disagree though about there being nothing limited about the 599. I guess it all depends on how you interpret "limited". I was talking to a Ferrari salesman a few months ago about the 599 & asked him how many people were on their waiting list. He didn't give me the exact # of names on the list, however, he did say that at the pace they were receiving them, it would take 12 yrs to go through the list. It's obviously not an accurate way to determine how long a list is since many of those entries fall off over time, but it gives you an idea of what somebody is facing when they want a brand new 599.

 

I'm sorry but I just don't get it. I was lucky enough to pay MSRP for my 599. There were none sitting on the lot to be bought and when I built my car the waiting list at the dealer was 1& 1/2 years. Now its 3 years out and the dealer has cancelled (The List). The build dates are so far out that taking more names was meaningless. If you look at FML and or just other venues I've seen at least 2 dozen or more 599,s for sale. All 2007's fully loaded some with only delivery miles in all the right colors and options selling for between 420K-499K. On top of everything else MRSP is up around 25-30K on a new order. By the time you actually take delivery the MRSP might go up an additional 20-30K possibly an additional 60K. Who knows?
My question is: If I want a 599 in my garage by the end of the week. Why bother with lists and a 2-3 year wait for a car that is loaded, low miles (1100-2000K) in all the right colors available today? With the added possibly of negotiating the price down a few K to boot. (motivated sellers). If I wanted a 599 today I would avoid all the BS, write the check, get my car and move on. By the time you wait 2-3 yrs. for your car, and actually cut a check for it you will probably be paying north of 400K anyway. For the extra 30K I just don't get it. Is it that important to buyers that they are getting a totally new car that they have personally spec'd? A car that they are paying only MSRP? Although I'm not sure what that means anymore when your talking 2 yrs out? A later model year? A 2009 or 10 vs. 2007 or 08? So tell me what the fasination? Bottom line why waste your time with these dealers at all? No matter who you buy the car from your Ferrari dealer will be servicing it and thats where they really make their money in the first place. Just my 2 cents.

 

I don't think choosing the specs on a 599 is as much of a factor as is the psychology of paying an amount higher than the manufacturer's suggested price. I think many people feel that since they're willing to spend so much on a car already, they don't feel as if they should have to or won't pay anymore than that amount. I'm not saying their right, wrong, morons, geniuses, etc... I'm just chiming in on why I think there are a certain % of people that just don't go to the aftermarket.

You might see things differently if you didn't get your 599 at MSRP. People aren't going to consider how much the car will be by the time they get it. They're going to consider how much over MSRP a used one is going for right now. If they find a nice one for $450k, they're going to view that as about $100k over sticker (give or take). That's not as easy to swallow for many people as the $30k or so you demonstrated.

 

This is one reason I may never own a Ferrari. I'll never pay a dime over the MSRP. If Ferrari dealers allowed me to buy at MSRP on some agreement such that I would give them the first right to buy it back for at most MSRP over the first couple years, I'd be driving one now. I'm not going to flip a car and I'm certainly not going to buy a flipped one.

I inquired about a Nissan GTR and the dealer said they were taking orders for MSRP+10K. I laughed. I'm going to pay $10K more for a car that you are ordering from the factory? Is this a joke? I don't buy from dealers because I want to. If I could, I'd buy straight from the factory. The extra $10K isn't a lot, but I wouldn't pay for it on principle.