Insurance, how to get an agreed upon value policy ? | FerrariChat

Insurance, how to get an agreed upon value policy ?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by WILLIAM H, Apr 26, 2008.

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  1. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    I want to reinsure the Slutmobile now that 512M prices have gone up

    How do you negotiate an agreed upon value ?

    Thanks
     
  2. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2001
    5,516
    Duluth, MN
    Full Name:
    The Meister
    Your insurance agent is one of the "top 5" people you know.

    The wife is #1
    The banker is # 2
    The club manger is #3
    The blank...... is #4
    The Insurance guy is #5

    I'm trying to be funny, but if you have good relationship w/ an insurance guy, it's a no-brainer....you tell him what it's worth...he figures it out and you pay the bill.

    People tend to try and cut corners w/ cut rate deals like Geico/etc....

    IMO, build a relationship w/ a local guy...give him the home, liability, cars, busniess, health...etc and when you call and say "hey I bought an ENZO"...he'll pay attention.

    Insurance, is one of those gray areas where it would be nice to cut costs, but when the shxxt hits the fan, it's worth every cent.

    JMWO.

    Best of luck.
     
  3. aseweepay

    aseweepay Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2004
    400
    Mid-West
    William,

    I insure both of my collector cars through Grundy...and unless I misunderstand your question, when I originated the policy and then renew, they just ask me what the cars are worth/what I want to insure them at....
     
  4. hotrod406

    hotrod406 Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2007
    540
    Grand rapids area,MI
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Hagerty does agreed value. You probably won't have to negotiate. I think they'll only ask for an appraisal if the amount you propose for the value is out of line with what they think is normal for your car.
     
  5. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
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    HUBBSTER
    I need to change the company cus the current upper limit is too low for the Slutmobile
     
  6. gil308

    gil308 Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2004
    1,975
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Gil
    I had Grundy for 6+ years and they asked me when I initiated the policy how much I want to insure my 308 for...I chose $45,000 as I spent a little under than in 1999. In 2005 I moved to SC and Grundy would not allow me to move my policy from FL as they only write cars 25 years old or older here...so I had to drop them (or the dropped me) and I went with Hagerty...same thing...they asked how much and I told them $45,000 -- there was no negotiation.

    I think $45k is a very good number for my 308...if I had to get another one, I think I can find a pristine one for that. But Cavallino list the value of a 308 GTS QV as high as $60,000. I may call Hagerty and see if it costs more to increase the value, and how much more it would cost.
     
  7. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2005
    12,313
    At Sea Level
    I use Chubb. Never had an issue. Never needed more than an appraisal letter. (Nothing fancy... I called a dealer, and asked if they'd right a letter stating cars current market value-- takes 3 minutes). Chubb did start having issues once F40 prices broke 500K...
     
  8. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2003
    19,036
    Virginia
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    Toggie (Ron)
    I use Hagerty. Easy process to sign up. They ask that you email or mail them a few pictures of the car. They will typically accept the agreed value you propose for the car as long as it is reasonable. The pictures give them a rough approximation of the condition of the vehicle and based on that, they can tell if you are too far outside the range of what is reasonable.

    I'm not an insurance agent, but the little bit I've learned about car insurance, it is important to know the difference between agreed value and declared value insurance. Most insurance companies are declared value (State Farm, Nationwide, Geico, etc.) and there are only a handful of agreed value companies (Grundy, Hagert, etc.). Declared value is what sets the premiums you pay, yet, if the car is stolen or totaled, the value you will get paid for the car is based on their insurance claims adjuster. They are only obligated to pay the lesser of: "what the car is worth" or the declared value. So, if you think your 308GTS is worth $50k and they say $25k based on current market statistics, then you'll only get $25k (even though you've been paying premiums on a $50k policy). The risk of this potential downside can be reduced some if you get a written professional appraisal of your car, submit it to them, and they accept it, this at least sets a point in time where they thought the car was worth the appraised value. However, if it has been years since the appraisal, once again, you are subject to what the adjuster says the car is worth. Agreed value is just that. They pay that dollar amount if the car is stolen or totaled.

    Be very careful with the fine print in agreed value policies. Some say things like the car cannot be used to commute to work in, cannot be used to run errands, can only be used for car shows and other hobby functions such as parades, or has an annual mileage limit. I went with Hagerty because they had very flexible terms and conditions. The danger with the limitations is on a major liability claim. Hypothetically, if you cause an accident with millions of dollars in damages, then you do not want your insurance company to say, in their opinion, you were "running an errand" and therefore you have no coverage for that claim.

    Anyway, talk to your insurance agent and get the type of insurance that suits your situation the best.
    My preferences are "agreed value with flexible terms and conditions" or "declared value with a written appraisal".

    Agreed value seems to work well for older cars, for example, my 1970 Jaguar E-type. The price quote I got for my 2006 430 was a lot more than with my normal car insurance company so I kept it with the normal company (Nationwide).
     
  9. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,367
    NY
    I have a local guy who appraises classic cars and is accepted by most insurance companies that deal with classic cars. I go every 2 years and for a slight fee ($25) he does his appraisal and give me his certificate of value. I use this when reinsureing the car with my company. Hasn't failed yet.
     
  10. LouB

    LouB Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2001
    1,811
    FL, OR


    I also use Chubb for my daily drivers but their "agreed value" kept dropping each year like a normal market value policy. To maintain the original "Agreed value" you had to pay more. Strange and not really what an agreed value policy should do in my opinion.

    I switched three of my older cars to Grundy with no problems. The 'agreed value" doesn't change and the cost is essentially constant.
     
  11. Mrpbody44

    Mrpbody44 F1 Veteran

    Jul 5, 2007
    7,899
    St Augustine Florida
    Full Name:
    Steve Metz
    I use Chubb. Never had an issue. Never needed more than an appraisal letter. (Nothing fancy... I called a dealer, and asked if they'd right a letter stating cars current market value-- takes 3 minutes). Chubb did start having issues once F40 prices broke 500K...

    That is actualy against the law. A letter from a dealer will not hold up in court. You need a USPAP compliant appriasal. Folks used to use a letter from a dealer or shop in the past but with valuations on these cars rising more insurance companies are requireing a legal appraisal. USPAP is the part of the commercial code of the US that covers valuation and is very similar to the regulations governing real estate appraisals.

    I and several other trained appraisers such as Dave Kinney in MD do USPAP compliant appraisals and I recomend them for cars over $50,000. A proper USPAP appraisal is about 25 pages long and fully documents the condition of the car and current market conditons supporting valueation. Some guy with Progessive or State Farm hits you they are going to they will go to court to make you prove that your 275/GTB is worth what you told your insurance company it's worth. I deal with this situation a couple times a month with other insurance companies dragging the classic car owner into court. Most of these cars are hit by a driver looking at the classic car and not paying attention to thier driving and slamming into the classic car.

    Chubb, Firemans and Hagerty are good insurace companys and pay claims.
     
  12. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    I use AIG private client services through Marsh. They have always taken care of this for me. All I have to do is write a check.

    Dale
     
  13. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2003
    19,036
    Virginia
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    Toggie (Ron)
    +1

    By coincidence, I happen to use Dave Kinney in Northern Virginia for the appraisal of my 1965 Corvette a few years back. Very detailed document, as you say. He even crawled under the car and showed me a few things that had been modified by the previous owner that I hadn't noticed myself. Plus he has lots of copies of Sports Car Market magazine to read while you wait. :)
     
  14. Mrpbody44

    Mrpbody44 F1 Veteran

    Jul 5, 2007
    7,899
    St Augustine Florida
    Full Name:
    Steve Metz
    Dave is a great guy and realy knows his cars. Besides Dave and myself there are about 13 other appraisers that do USPAP compliant appriasals in the US. I cover FL, GA,SC,NJ and PA. Dave Kinney does a lot of work in DC,MD. Many appriasers have a 3-6 month backlog so you may have to wait. It also takes about 30 days or more to get your report to you as we do a lot of expert witness work and loss work which interfieser with schedualing..
     
  15. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
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    HUBBSTER
    Thanks, can you go into more detail on USPAP, like where do you get it ? Do they come see your car ? what does USPAP stand for ? who do you call ?
     
  16. Mrpbody44

    Mrpbody44 F1 Veteran

    Jul 5, 2007
    7,899
    St Augustine Florida
    Full Name:
    Steve Metz
    USPAP is the Uniform Standards of Appraisal Practice which is part of the federal comerical code which is federal law that governs all 50 states. To be a legal appraisal an appraisal must conform to the guide lines of the law. Certifed personal property appraisers have taken courses in this. A legal appraisal must have things like detailed approach to value, market at time of inspection and subjects placement in market, ect. I have taken the Masters Degree courses in Personal Property from George Washington University in DC through The American Society of Apraisers. I believe this course is now offered at Rhode Island School of Design.

    I will travel to see a car or collection as well as some of the other appraisers. I travel to PA once a month to do cars int he Philadlephia/NJ area. Dave Kinney usually will have folks come to hime do to his busy schedual. PM me I know several good apraisers in the midwest and west coast. Fees vary but must guys that do a good appraisal charge $350-$500 per car. Updates usually done every 2 years are $50. I give a price break for car collections. Keep in mind that you may want some one to take a look at your car memorabilia and posters. I have done several collections where the memorabilia was worth more than the car collections. This can be true with Ferrari and Corvette collectors.
     
  17. Bavarian Motorist

    Bavarian Motorist Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2007
    943
    Westchester/NYC
    Full Name:
    Mike
  18. Joe 575

    Joe 575 Karting

    Dec 18, 2005
    101
    So Cal/Carmel
    Full Name:
    Joe
    AIG Private Client
     
  19. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,186
    Also AIG Private Client, but they want appraisal letters for the F40 and a couple others. They apparently refer to Manheim's "The Gold Book" for valuations, a publication which does not seem to me to be very accurate.
     
  20. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    I actually had a problem with Hagerty because I didn't ask for enough coverage. They said my 250 was worth way more than I stated.
     
  21. modena2904

    modena2904 Formula Junior
    Owner

    Jul 6, 2007
    917
    Ellicott City, MD
    Full Name:
    Eric
    If you go with an agreed value policy from someone like Hagerty, how does that fit in with your other car insurance?

    I currently have all my insurance with State Farm, including an umbrella liability policy. If I insure one car (the Ferrari) with Hagerty, it seems like I'd still have to negotiate something with State Farm, because after the Hagerty liability ends, I need the umbrella liability to kick in. Or alternatively, could I split the insurance -- comp/collision (no liability) with Hagerty, and liability (no comp/collision) with State Farm? That sounds messy...

    - Eric
     
  22. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    I have agreed value with Farmers on the Lotus and their regular coverage on the other cars. I just told them what it was worth and they didn't ask for any documentation. Farmers is better than Hagerty in that they say I can use the car occasionally for "any purpose" except racing or timed events. No mileage restrictions either so I can run errands without any worry. They are a little higher than what I was paying Hagerty, but still way less than what a regular policy would be.

    Ken
     
  23. Randy Harris

    Randy Harris Karting

    Feb 23, 2006
    112
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    R.C. Harris
    Generally your primary insurance carrier, the one that has your daily drivers and your umbrella, will require your Hagerty policy to conform to their liability minimums for the umbrella. Hagerty's basic liability policy is too low. Not to worry though, they will gladly increase the minimums and it's a small amount extra for a significant amount of extra liability coverage on the collector car.
    Randy
     
  24. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,368
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    State Farm had no problems with an Agreed Value policy for years, then recently moved all my Ferraris to Collector Coverage with some mileage restrictions, they can do it, just talk with your agent....
     

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