599 and GT3RS On Track

judging by the stance, the 599 does not reall feel at home on the track.....
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599 is a GT car that is hugely overweight for the track. Nevertheless it is a surprisingly able performer. Electronics are great and CCB brakes hold up well

 

somebody is gonna need a new set of front tires

 

But it is leading out the GT3...........

 

Not at home at the track? Porsche doesn't even compete in any racing series... What could they possibly know about the track. LOL

 

What about the RS Spyder and the GT3 RSR ? Where are they competing ?

 

BTW , thats the Val de Vienne track, more suited for Elises than 599 .

 

F2008 > RS Spyder, but I'm sure you knew that already..

 

How is the F2008 going to catch up the RS spyder after the engine needs a rebuild on the 10th hour ? Your argument is ridiculous.

The RS spyder and F2008 are in different class and both are doing pretty well ..

 

It's not ridiculous.. Ferrari know more about the track than Porsche does.

 

I'm not trying to pretend the 599 is faster than a gt3 RS, but a couple of thoughts....

1. The 599 is in front of the GT3, this means nothing, except that the other 599 appears to be preparing to pass the GT3 on the outside. Both 599s will run away from the GT3 on the straight.

2. The GT3 and GT3 RS don't have any traction control and most people are not pro-drivers. I bet it takes one of hell of a driver to beat a similar level driver in a 599 around a race track solely because of F1-trac. The 599 is just sooooooo easy to drive 10 10ths that it's mind boggling. I don't think the 599 would have a chance against a GT3 with a really good driver who could extract everything out of the car, but short of that most people just aren't that fast in GT3s. When you go to DEs you always see guys in Turbos owning people in GT3s just because the Turbos are on the edge the whole time with a traction control safety net.

3. CCB is amazing

4. The hardest suspension isn't always the best. Ferrari is pretty good at setting up suspensions so other than weight the 599 is not bad at all. If you look at the picture the 599 drivers don't appear to be taking the turn right. The car in front is not leaning back at all, unless it's a chicane we should see some more evidence of acceleration. Either way both drivers, who may be good or bad I don't know, are taking the turn poorly. The cars should be balanced way more than that regardless of suspension, seems like for whatever reason they aren't smooth.

 

Leading or being lapped???

 

.......+1

 

I can't believe I am even reading this... That anyone would say something so preposterous means that they have had their head in the sand for the last 3 decades or more. If you have not noticed Porsche has won more Le Mans 24 hour races than ANY OTHER MARQUE EVER! Porsche's have won more endurance races of ANY KIND than ANY OTHER marque, EVER... They participate in a all kinds of series as well. Yea, they have not been in F1 since the early 80's (at which time I think they won two manufacturers championships in a row, and they only competed for 2 or 3, maybe 4 years even!) but that is not the only type of racing out there. That said, it is pretty much the ONLY series I watch too, but at least I am aware of the facts...

 

Have you ever driven on a race track? Just asking because I can find you a ton of tracks that will favor the GT3 over the 599 and the 599 won't have a prayer. The flip side of the coin is that there are going to be a BUNCH of tracks where the 599 will outrun the GT3. That is the nature of race tracks. A tighter track is going to favor the GT3 BIG TIME! A more open track will favor the 599 BIG TIME! Both have CCB's of amazing performance. The Porsche is clearly a track beast and it has fully adjustable (but not cockpit adjustable) suspension but even in soft mode you will get pretty beat up on the street.

Oh, while the 599 will pull the GT3 on a straight I suspect you would be surprised by how LITTLE it will actually pull a GT3...on a tight course it would not be enough because the GT3 will come through the corner so much faster do to the lighter weight. If you compare power to weight those cars are not all that far apart really.

It will take a slightly better driver in the GT3 because it does not have a bunch of drivers aids saving you every a corner is overcooked for sure...

YMMV!

 

I don't believe he was making an argument. If I said guinea pigs are sweeter pets than Dobermans, it’s all relative. Just like saying the F2008 is a better car than the Type 9R6.

They are two different racing classes, and although I do not believe an RS on its best day would be competitive in a Formula 1 race. Comparing the engine endurance capability of an LMP2 car to an F1 is all relative. My personal opinion has it that if the F2008 lined up at Sebring at an average qual. time, it could out break, and out accelerate enough so to pull a large enough distance out in front of the car behind. Lasting 12 hrs would be a sight to behold, but I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. With the new FIA regulations in F1, the engine and gearboxes of these cars have to last a while as it is... Sorry Andy, not this time.

He was clearly making a joke. Thus the "lol" and smilie.

I believe the Circuit du Val de Vienne held a GT40 event there. I’m talking about the 3.7km track with a Ferrari driving school. And the photo Andy, and I may be mistaken, is taken at one of the slowest corners - 11 I think - near the main straight which justifies a bit the hard breaking of the 599s.

The photo below was also taken there... I’m sure a 599 could handle the track...

Maybe if you fly out to your second house in Paris, and ask really nicely, your dad will take you around the track in his Enzo!



_J
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Dont forget that V12 Enzo-engined underneath her bonnet! No wonder how good she is performing!!

Nice pic, Thanks.

 

I have driven on the Vigeant track in a GT3 and passenger in a few Ferraris. Not the longest configuration and didnt care at all for the layout of the track , and i still think it was more suited for nimble cars than a 599. My point was that this track is favoring a car like the GT3 . And in any case , most tracks are since the Gt3 is a track car and the 599 isnt. I certainly hope a 599 can handle this or any track , its a Ferrari after all and although they are becoming more and more for posers , i still have hope some of its model will remain true to the brand's roots.

 

GT3 is a great car, a track monkey. The 599 is, as ttg said, far better than it should be for weight, level of comfort. Same level drivers would have an interesting time with each other.

I think many people would be surprised at how a 599 gets power to the ground, and it will run away from a lot of things it theoretically shouldn't. The driver aids can be switched off, and someone who can push a GT3 can push a 599 with TC off.
I haven't tracked my 599 yet, but I have posed really fast . I have tracked a bunch of stuff, and a 599 with a nice track alignment (probably not as streetable as a standard 599, but still useable) will be a brutal car. If you can drive well, corners shouldn't get overcooked in either. The understeer in the pic can be eliminated with TC off and some right foot.

Porsche is getting close to losing their LM win title. Audi is closing hard, and Ferrari, Jag, Bentley aren't too far behind. Porsche and Ferrari have diverged in last 20 years, Ferrari not doing as much sports racing. That said, the Maranello did great for a big heavy car in GT racing, and 360/430 too.

Porsche knows plenty, that was an idiotic claim. 911's and 911 based cars have amazed and filled class wins and overall wins for years, and the 917/904/906/910 still rock. F1 not comparable to Prototypes, but I'd love to see a 333 up against an RS or TDI.

Hope you're well Andrew, biz thriving I'm sure. How does your father like the 599? Did he get a grille like mine, or am I still the only one out here who can't stand chrome?

 

That is not quite correct. Based on Sportauto's Supertest the 599 and the GT3 are doing identical lap times on HHR and the NBR...

 

On faster tracks (like the NBR) the 599 is actually slightly faster than the GT3RS (based on Sportauto)...

 

Ive been in a GT3, very harsh ride, especially for our roads in Montreal. The 599 GTB will actually be a better tool for daily driving then the occasional stint at the track.

I think thats the praise for most Ferraris. Park them infront of the club, drive them to the country club, track them occasionally and they do well in all areas. The GT3 is more focused, but also more compromising.

Is that tool going to post a picture of a 456GTA vs GT3 next?

 

This is the lamest discussion ever. 'Superiority' on the track is perhaps only proven in the context of a championship--and even then it's dubious.

It's not proven by so-called journalists taking street cars and going lapping on race tracks.

It's certainly not proven by what happens on amateur track days.

And it's definitely not proven by 'ring times.

 

Their last try at Formula 1 was in 1991, IIRC.

 

Lee,

I would also love to see Ferrari back at Le Mans. But with the budget Audi and Pug are throwing , im afraid we will have to be happy with the GT2 cars.

He decided to pass on the 599 and instead is looking for something to do the Tour Auto with . Prices have gone crazy everywhere. Or possibly the 8C Spider. Hows your 599 doing ?
Business is ok and the new company is almost live ..Pretty excited . I cant wait for it to be presentable and share the link .