360 Intake hose blew off | FerrariChat

360 Intake hose blew off

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Brav, Apr 27, 2008.

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  1. Brav

    Brav Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2005
    1,029
    OC, Rome
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    Chris
    Last night while driving home, at about 4k RPM shifting to 3rd, I heard what was a very loud backfire, and saw a little flash in the rearview. I had been driving calm and not running hard. I continued cautiously, and then after a mile or so the low RPM range got kinda rough. above 4k was smooth. So I proceeded cautiously home, about 2-3 miles, and it got a bit worse as I got home. Anyhow, I open the hood, and the cats and exhaust up to the muffler was red hot glowing. And then I realized the right side intake hose had blown off the metal plennum. This is very strange.. what could have caused this type of backfire? The rubber connector has a little tear in it where it rested against the metal. I am guessing the exhaust got so hot because it was running lean? Has anyone heard of this happen before?

    Thanks
     
  2. TopElement

    TopElement Formula 3

    May 14, 2005
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    That's very strange. I would have pulled over right away to check out the situation.
     
  3. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 27, 2005
    4,367
    VA
    Second that. No idea how it happened, but your lucky the engine did not catch fire.
     
  4. Brav

    Brav Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2005
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    Yea probably should have. but my exhaust is known to pop and crackle, its very free flowing, and 2 less cats as its a euro. I didnt think of it until it started driving strange as I got home. It was black out, I wouldnt be able to see anything..

    Anyhow, anyone with input would be appreciated.
     
  5. F456 V12

    F456 V12 F1 Veteran
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    Check your oil level, if you overfill this is a symptom...I speak from first hand experience. If you see oil in the intake that will confirm it.

    MB
     
  6. Brav

    Brav Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2005
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    Chris
    Thanks for the tip
     
  7. Brav

    Brav Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2005
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    Chris
    I hooked everything back up and all is well. Looks like one of the cats might be on its way out however, which was the likely culprit.
     
  8. traknut

    traknut Karting

    Mar 30, 2006
    121
    How did you clean the oil out of the plenums?
     
  9. ferrariblue

    ferrariblue Formula Junior

    Jun 12, 2007
    548
    Houston, Texas
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    Cody
    Man, that is not an oil level issue. You had a backfire through your intake, and probably damaged your mass air flow meter. That is why your mixture leaned out after the backfire. I would have your Ferrari Tech inspect the condition of your top end of the motor asap. I would refrain from driving it and have it towed in to your shop. Have you modified anything on your engine?

    C-
     
  10. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Ignition timing that is too advanced will fire the spark plug before the intake valves are closed/seated (ditto for cam timing that is set wrong such that valves open too early or close too late). The flame front will then travel back in to the intake manifold through those open intake valves, igniting all of that air and fuel as well. The resulting explosion then travels out of the intake manifold, through the MAF, to the air filter(s).

    Likewise, an intake air leak could cause you to run so lean that you get a backfire.

    Another possibility is one or more spark plugs are bad/wrong such that you have a hot spark plug causing your air/fuel to detonate *before* the spark is fired.


    So check for intake air leaks, and pull all of your spark plugs. Photograph them and post them here if you want some basic spark plug analysis performed (also, see spark plug reading link below).
     
  11. TopElement

    TopElement Formula 3

    May 14, 2005
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    How familiar are you with 360's, Ferrari's, or dry sump systems in general? This is not an uncommon problem, and a high oil level could very well be the cause.
     
  12. traknut

    traknut Karting

    Mar 30, 2006
    121
    Same thing happened to me when I overfilled the oil by 1 1/2 qts. Both hoses blew off and made a bit of a mess. I cleaned the oil out of the plennums and everything has been fine for months. Make sure you fill the oil SLOWLY!!!
     
  13. Diablo

    Diablo Formula Junior

    Oil is over filled. I had one blow off the other day. The mechanic filled it up about 4 quarts over, his first Ferrari. you will also have to check to see if the air flow meters are now oil contaminated (check engine light too).

    Some people don't realize it is a dry sump system and it has to be at operating temp before you can check the oil.
     
  14. FERRARI-TECH

    FERRARI-TECH Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2006
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    Of course too much oil would cause this kind of situation, but unless the oil had just been topped off, I dont think the engine would suddenly have to much oil in it. Lets ask how long the car had been driven since the oil was last checked/topped up. In situations like this we need to understand the exact circumstances before condeming a component. Many things can cause intake miss/back fires. The comment that interests me the most is the fact that the cat's where glowing. Now they do get very hot, but normal driving will not normally make them "glow", possible cause's of this are Plugged/restricted cats, faulty Mass sensors, timing, mixture etc etc, I am not one to perform diagnosis over the internet, but it really needs to be checked out before driven agian. I sure others will disagree, and thats the beauty of the forum's but thats just my $0.02 worth
     
  15. F456 V12

    F456 V12 F1 Veteran
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    Paid Ferrari to do it...needed an oil change anyways. In my defense, I had a defective oil pressure transducer. The gauge was reading low and the red light would come on at idle, when in fact the oil level was fine. I overreacted a bit and just pulled over and dropped some oil ~ .5L and the light went out...next time i started the car up, some white smoke and about 30 minutes into the drive, the hose blew off.

    MB
     
  16. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
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    Jan 28, 2007
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    I too have seen this happen when the oil is overfilled. I find it a little odd that a check engine wasn't displayed if there was a misfire or other issue, 360's are normally pretty sensative like that, although i'd agree you should still get someone to hook it up to an SD2 and check it. Do you still have the thermocouples in place? Didn't have a slow down lamp with those hot cats? I'd check the oil level as a firstly, if you find it's over, your still going to have all the eccess oil cleaned out from where it's not supposed to be! Good luck, keep us posted!
     
  17. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    If the excess oil blew out with his intake hose, then checking his oil level (always do this when the car is hot, never cold, by the way, or else you'll forever be overfilling your oil due false readings) might just tell him that everything is fine.

    However, if he pulls out an air filter and sees oil on it, then *that* will let him know that he had/has an oil overfill problem.
     
  18. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
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    True, but if it's overfilled enough to blow off the pipe, then i doubt he would have lost sufficient oil to return it to the correct level, it would be pouring from everywhere. Good point on the airfilter though. Either way there's going to be oil in places it shouldn't be!!
     
  19. Brav

    Brav Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2005
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    It was not overfilled oil. Got the car back today, was waiting on O2 sensors. I replaced both the fronts, but the front right side was the culprit, which was the side that had the issue. The oil was not a mess, it was more of a fine mist in a specific location. Not much at all, just noticed it on the glass.

    Anyhow, it runs smoother and stronger, and much more peppy. It had started to burble a bit but just wrote it off as my freelfowing capristo 3 and 2 less cats. Glad it was all solved for under 1k! Runs fantastic.

    So I guess the lesson is: if your car starts to backfire a little more often or give the slightest hint of intermitten hesitation, check the O2 sensors!
     
  20. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    Nice job on getting her fixed, but your solution is certainly counter-intuitive!

    Normally you shouldn't have *any* backfires or *any* popping coming out of your exhaust, and O2 sensors should just be massaging the fuel-air mixture plus or minus 10%.



    Did you look at your air filter to see if there was any oil on it?
     
  21. Brav

    Brav Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2005
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    I supposed you are right, of course it *shouldnt* be that way.. but it was. The car still burbles a bit. It never backfired per se until recently, it just popped and fizzled (normal sound) due to free flowing exhaust. It just got worse all of a sudden. Either way, its solved, no damge. I didnt personally inspect the airbox. My mechanic went through all fluids, etc., and it wasnt noted one way or another. I will check it out to make sure.
     
  22. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

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    Just for peace of mind. Can't hurt to see if oil has covered your air filter or has coated the bottom of your air filter box itself.
     
  23. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,587
    Intake hose popped off with a Big Bang and smoke

    I put it back on an drives great

    Not sure what caused it

    Oil Is 5/8" over max when full hot

    Level is 5" below rim if threaded edge of oil tank
     

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