F430 Spider Top 10 Suck List | FerrariChat
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F430 Spider Top 10 Suck List

Discussion in '360/430' started by Swiss Frank, May 7, 2008.

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  1. Swiss Frank

    Swiss Frank Karting

    May 6, 2008
    177
    Hong Kong
    #1 Swiss Frank, May 7, 2008
    I'm curious what things people have learned about the F430 Spider after they purchased it, that would give them pause, or you think would give others pause, to make the purchase again. In other words, I'm not looking for "it only has two seats" or "it can't carry two people and their golf clubs." I'll throw a few out there:

    -- scuttle shake: on less than perfect roads the front of the car wobbles just a bit independently of the back?

    -- steering: has stronger kickbacks on major road imperfections than the coupe?

    -- F1 trans: is parallel parking a *****?

    -- front airdam more sensitive to damange than you realized?

    -- top: can't get it quite closed by itself? Rear glass (plastic?) get scratched up?

    -- flat crank sound: while may be the best 4-cyl sound in the world, does the sound just start to grate more than an I-6 or cross-crank V-8 at equivalent volume?

    -- conversation at 80MPH impossible?

    -- unexpectedly huge repair bills (esp. clutch?)

    -- chicks throwing themselves at car a driving safety hazzard?

    Any other suprises?
     
  2. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    106,984
    Vegas baby
    #2 TheMayor, May 7, 2008
    Yes!! Large breasted women always ask for a ride! How do you choose? Blonde? Brunette? Red head? It drives me crazy.
     
  3. zalbahadurji

    zalbahadurji Karting

    Dec 6, 2006
    64
    Boston/Dubai/Mumbai
    #3 zalbahadurji, May 7, 2008
    4 CYL???
     
  4. Highlow

    Highlow F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 3, 2006
    5,532
    LA
    Full Name:
    Tyler
    #4 Highlow, May 7, 2008
    At least Im not the only one who caught that.......

    WTF mate?
     
  5. zalbahadurji

    zalbahadurji Karting

    Dec 6, 2006
    64
    Boston/Dubai/Mumbai
    #5 zalbahadurji, May 7, 2008
    honest mistake, i guess..

    to help you out..

    - the plastic wind deflector squeaks in the wind (think it's just my car though)
    - if you're tall, the rear view mirror impedes visibility
    - in hot climates, it doesn't cool too well.. and the Auto mode on the A/C is crap

    But.. when you hit that red button, all this nonsense disappears as quickly as the smile that appears on your face..
     
    Philippe van kerckvoorde likes this.
  6. kalmah

    kalmah Karting

    Jan 10, 2007
    110
    Bayport, New York
    Full Name:
    Joe Dillinger
    #6 kalmah, May 7, 2008
    "-- conversation at 80MPH impossible?"

    Is that really a problem? Or just plain awesome that your exhaust sounds that good? ;)
     
    Philippe van kerckvoorde likes this.
  7. Swiss Frank

    Swiss Frank Karting

    May 6, 2008
    177
    Hong Kong
    #7 Swiss Frank, May 8, 2008
    Yep, F430's are powered by two 4-cyl engines. Read on if you're curious or check http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/smooth4.htm or the Wikipedia articla "V8 engine" section "Crankshaft design" for details.

    Most V-8's have a "cross-plane" crankshaft, that when viewed from the end is shaped like a cross. It gives a firing order (between the left and right engine banks) of LRLLRLRR, that results in the typical V-8 "burble" sound. The soundwave repeats itself every 720 degrees of crank rotation.

    As exceptions, Ferraris have a "flat-plane" crankshaft that gives a firing order of LRLRLRLR that sounds much more like a "howl." It is the equivalent of two straight-4's in one package. The resulting soundwave repeats itself every 180 degrees of crank rotation, which gives 4x the frequency of the cross-crank, giving a basic tone two octaves higher. This is why a BMW M5 V8 "growls" at 4000-6000RPM and why most V-8s sound bassy, whereas Ferraris "growl" just off idle and proceed rapidly to "shriek" mode. Naturally, the inherent tone of the engine is modified by exhaust resonance and augmented by ancillary equipment (eg cam chains). But you'd have better luck using an aftermarket muffler to simulating the sound of a Ferrari V-8 with a Honda I-4 (or vice versa) than you ever would with a cross-crank V-8.

    Why two kinds of V-8s?

    The cross-crank requires heavy counterweights that hurt the ability to rev quickly. The counterweights can increase the size requirements of the block's bottom end and thus increase weight, and can increase the height below the crankshaft center (raising the height of the entire motor, raising its center of gravity). For high-RPM cylinder-scavenging efficiency it would require a complex spaghetti of exhaust tubes connected to both banks. Finally, the crank shape is complex enough that it can't be forged, it must be cast. This rules out the traditional method to maximize strength for a given crankshaft weight.

    The cross-crank benefit is that the engine runs very smoothly and is very well balanced. This allows it to be scaled up quite large, which is why there are lots of 8-liter V8's but no 4-liter straight 4's (which would vibrate themselves and the car to pieces; vibration increase with cube of displacement). As an unexpected bonus, lowering the fundmental frequency of the engine gives a bassy, woofling tone that most people really like. So passenger cars invariably employ the crosscrank for running smoothness and sound.

    The only flat-plane V-8s you'll find on the road are performace-ueber-alles vehicles such as the Ferraris, TVRs, or the old Lotus V8. The company Powertec puts two motorcycle engines(Hayabusas?) into one 2.6 liter, flatplane V8, which revs to 10,500, makes 363HP, and powers the Radical SR8. Even when the Ferrari V-8 was transplanted into the Maseratis, one of the key differences is that they switched from flat-plane cranks to cross-cranks.

    In summary: yes, your car sound is that of a 4-cyl with a loud, resonant muffler and hellacious mechanical noise from the ancillaries. While its a killer sound, I'm just wondering if the treble nature inherent in the flat-plane design might start making some F430 fans choose another car for longer trips.
     
  8. Dipsomaniac

    Dipsomaniac F1 Veteran

    Mar 23, 2006
    5,956
    Doha/Sydney
    Full Name:
    Derek K
    #8 Dipsomaniac, May 8, 2008
    +1 ... I don't think I would have said anything differently .. but I'd add ...

    - rubber coated buttons/handles turn sticky after a while
    - the older and fatter I get the more difficulty I have getting in & out
    - trying to reverse park with the roof up (blind spot? who said that, I can't see you?)

    But.. when you hit that red button, all this nonsense disappears as quickly as the smile that appears on your face
     
  9. FJerry

    FJerry Formula Junior

    Dec 1, 2004
    933
    United States
    #9 FJerry, May 8, 2008
    That is a lot of information and I never really stopped to consider everything you say about the engine configuration. Assuming its correct then I learned something new and thank you for that. Here are my observations for what they are worth:

    -- scuttle shake: on less than perfect roads the front of the car wobbles just a bit independently of the back? I understand what you are saying but mine does not exhibit this so terribly that I would say one end of the car is moving independently of the other. [/i]

    -- steering: has stronger kickbacks on major road imperfections than the coupe? I definitely sense this and high speed driving over less than perfect roads has the steering giving a lot of information and combining with #1 above it does sap some confidence from the driver.

    -- F1 trans: is parallel parking a *****? Mines a stick shift so I can't comment.

    -- front airdam more sensitive to damange than you realized? No- I knew it would be a glutton for punishment and actually my car has been better in this regard than I thought but I believe the US cars are setup to ride a bit higher than the European cars so you may be worse off in this regard- though yours looks much better! :)

    -- top: can't get it quite closed by itself? Rear glass (plastic?) get scratched up? I have a bit over 3100 miles on my car with no problems with the top. The rear window is terribly scratched up but this is normal for a folding plastic rear window. Little bits of debris and grime literally scratch this thing up when its folded down and you are motoring around. It comes with the territory. Its the price you pay for having a compact folding roof. The other choice is a solid piece of glass back there which take up more room. To remove the scratches try meguiars scratch removal products- they work well. I have their older products for my convertibles and they work as advertised.

    http://www.properautocare.com/meplplclpo.html

    -- flat crank sound: while may be the best 4-cyl sound in the world, does the sound just start to grate more than an I-6 or cross-crank V-8 at equivalent volume? I love the sound but, and this is relative to the person, the F430 is an intense driving experience as far as modern luxury cars go. I have driven mine for hours straight and I would feel like I could keep driving, but upon stopping, I realized that I was exhausted. It can wear you down.

    -- conversation at 80MPH impossible? This one I have to disagree with you- in 6th gear with light throttle to keep the car moving along, with the windows up the 430 spider exhibits some of the lowest amount of wind buffeting Ive ever experienced and the exhaust is really not too loud at all. Now if you mean under full throttle, then thats different- but thats also such a great sound- talk about it when you stop for dino juice! :)

    -- unexpectedly huge repair bills (esp. clutch?) Again, I may not have enough miles yet, but so far I am impressed with relatively not too expensive services Ive had. My largest single items have been my own fault- replacement wheel and tire for about $2500.

    -- chicks throwing themselves at car a driving safety hazzard? Drive faster :D

    Any other suprises? Actually, coming from BMWs and this being my first Ferrari, I didn't know what to expect and wondered if the stereotype of difficult cars to live with, and horribly expensive to service would hold up. So far its been the opposite. My impression of the build quality is it is excellent and the cars drive like a dream if you are excited about driving. In hind sight maybe its not a surprise that I have become an even bigger fan of the marque but if you spoke to me a few years ago I would have said I would not be in this place- yet here I am- the product has won me over. There is a whole mystique of course, but if the product was no good, I would not be here.

    best regards,
    Jerry
     
  10. djantlive

    djantlive Formula 3

    Jun 30, 2005
    1,015
    #10 djantlive, May 10, 2008
    Only thing I've found is lack of glass window. Hate the small plastic window.

    Other than that, maybe less plastic parts in interior.
     
  11. Shumdit

    Shumdit Formula Junior

    May 9, 2006
    335
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Matthew B.
    #11 Shumdit, May 10, 2008
    Biggest "Suck"? That they are so damn expensive (or maybe it's that I am so damn poor!) ;)
     
  12. racerdj

    racerdj F1 Veteran
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    Jan 19, 2003
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    #12 racerdj, May 10, 2008
    Good point that was made on 'parallel parking' with the F-1.
     
  13. Swiss Frank

    Swiss Frank Karting

    May 6, 2008
    177
    Hong Kong
    #13 Swiss Frank, May 10, 2008
    the only computer-controlled manual I've ever driven is the GT-R and parallel parking actually isn't bad, at least transmission-wise.

    are you saying the tranny is the problem? Or are you saying external visibility's a problem?
     
  14. marksp

    marksp Formula Junior

    Jul 10, 2006
    737
    Redmond, WA
    #14 marksp, May 10, 2008
    My reason for switching from the Spider to the coupe is the combination of attention and "access". Both models hardly "blend in", but when in the Spider, people regularly chat you up at stop lights. For me, I grew tired of random folks more interested in who's driving the car, than the car itself. It's surprising how much privacy a little more aluminum can provide!
     
  15. mousecatcher

    mousecatcher Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2007
    2,116
    san mateo, ca
    #15 mousecatcher, May 10, 2008
    you sure about that? i seem to recall even back in the 80s when i was working on musclecars that forged cranks were available.
     
  16. vm3

    vm3 Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2007
    728
    California
    #16 vm3, May 10, 2008
    Excellent writeup! That explains why, when I got the 360 with stock exhaust, I thought it sounded like a 4 cylinder! And that also explains why the 360 and now CS idle so much more roughly than my 8 cylinder Mercedes.

    Getting back to the topic of Spyder suck list, I have a friend who got an $18,000 repair bill for fixing his 360 Spyder. Most of the cost went to the soft top.
     
  17. Swiss Frank

    Swiss Frank Karting

    May 6, 2008
    177
    Hong Kong
    #17 Swiss Frank, May 10, 2008
    was thaat 18,000 an accident or routine maitenance?!?!?
     
  18. vm3

    vm3 Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2007
    728
    California
    #18 vm3, May 10, 2008
    There was a defect in the soft top but his car was just out of warranty.
     
  19. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,595
    #19 sparetireless, May 11, 2008
    Other than than, the car is just about perfect.

    Dear Ferrari,

    Please change convertible top rear window to glass please.
     
  20. Shumdit

    Shumdit Formula Junior

    May 9, 2006
    335
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Matthew B.
    #20 Shumdit, May 11, 2008
    Reply from Ferrari:

    Dear Customer,
    Kindly kiss our italian butt, and feel grateful we even put a window back there for you. ;)
     

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