Null Physics - Science or Scam? | FerrariChat

Null Physics - Science or Scam?

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by James_Woods, May 5, 2008.

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  1. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    I just got Discover Magazine on Saturday. There is an expensive full-color ad (center spread IIRC) for a book that costs $59.95 on something called "Null Physics".

    It purports to explain "The reason for the existence of the Universe", so debunk the Standard Model of particles, to redefine or disclaim so-called multidimensional or string theories, and other outragiously radical proprosals.

    Something about it kind of made me smell scam - looked it up this morning in several references. What I think I am finding is that this is sort of the "Kevin Trudeau Natural Cures" of Physics - (like that guy who advertises the Cures book on TV and claims that Doctors and Drug Companies are the evil forces of medicine).

    The internet so far seems to be full of advs for it, but not much solid information. The authors really expect you to pony up the $59.95 in order to get their special secrets. None of this has been published in any recognized form like an established science paper would be.

    Excerpts indiciate a couple of eyebrow raising concepts, though -

    * the neutron is merely a composite of a proton and an electron. He has no use for the quarks.
    * light diminishes all by itself as the photon speeds on its way. This is why the sky is not uniformly bright.
    * the Hubble constant is some sort of illusion.
    * the Milky Way galaxy objects (including the Sun and everything else) is collapsing inward to the galaxy center at around 1KM/second.

    What mystifies me is how this kind of major ad can pass muster in so-called "serious" science magazines; it appears to be in not only Discover, but perhaps also Scientific American and others.
     
  2. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    I'm sure they're "paying" to be in the magazine.
     
  3. fastback33

    fastback33 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2004
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    Science channel has a good show on string theories and multi dimensions. the thinking for it was that they could not pin point the movement of an electron, so common belief, now (again) is that there are atleast 11 different dimensions where different events have different out comes. As per before scientists who believed in string theory or the 11th dimension where shunned by the scientific community. Funny how that al works really. The show also goes into how the universe was created by two membranes that kept rubbing together, thus creating friction, getting hotter, and hence we have the big bang. yet it doesn't actually go into HOW the universe was created. I was dissappointed....
     
  4. Jedi

    Jedi Moderator
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    ...do ya think?

    :D

    Jedi
     
  5. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    Uh, yeah - I think. But, could we be missing out on such secrets as Cold Fusion or other treasures just because we won't give up a lousy fifty nine dollars? That, I guess is the draw - keep the mumbo-jumbo "secret" and make people pay to get a look at the silly non-contents.

    What I was more interested in (than this egomaniacal theory) was what standards these science magazines have for vetting ads.

    I would probably expect such stuff in Popular Mechanics, but in Discover or Smithsonian? As badly as most Americans treat real science, it would seem to me that this kind of thing borders on intellectual criminality.

    James
     
  6. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Generally the standard is if they pay and it won't be offensive to the readers.

    Car and motorcycle magazines are the worst…most actually sell articles along with advertising. Next time your looking at a car magazine, particularly a speed/hotrod type magazine try to find a product or shop mentioned in a write-up that doesn’t have ad space in the magazine. You simply can’t believe a word they have to say.....
     
  7. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    Well, IMHO "string" or "membrane" theory is at present more in the realm of a mathematical recreation than it is in the realm of physics theory. This, I mean, in the sense that "real" theory usually leads to or predicts the discovery of previously unknown particles, phenomenon, or such. Real theories usually can suggest appropriate experiments to prove them or not. Previous theory (like Gell-Man's eightforld way, the standard model, GR, or such) usually make seemingly complicated things SIMPLER, rather than cooking up more and more theoretical particles or dimensions.

    So, I too was a little dissapointed by the pure speculative nature of that show you mention - but I am glad that they do occasionally raise the subject.

    BTW, there was also a pretty revealing special on Stephen Hawking and his decades long debate on informational loss into black holes. It sort of made me get the feeling that science may have made a superstar out of this guy and that the stardom is getting a little long in the tooth.
     
  8. fastback33

    fastback33 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2004
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    You know i don't know much about stephen hawking nor do i really care. But what's the point of all these space theories if our damn governments don't even make an effort to go deeper into space? Not sure aobut you but it is really, and i mean really annoying too see all of these show about the universe, when we are still stuck here on this planet. Not saying iw ant to leave, i have no desire to travel into space, but there are a few people i would like to see, "go where no man has gone before". ;)
     
  9. djui5

    djui5 F1 Veteran

    Aug 9, 2006
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    My father and I were discussing this last night. They believe there are multiple "realities" and each decision you make takes you to another "reality" where you encounter the next decision. You're constantly weaving in and out of these "realities". My father theories that you make your decisions during your sleep, while you are dreaming, so it's not a conscious thing. He also got into the time travel theory using this as an example. I argued that time travel can't happen or people from the future would be here now. He says "what about people who can accurately predict the future" and I said that knowing something is going to happen and it actually happening are 2 different things. Like when a car is going to ram into you. You know it's going to hit you, but it hasn't happened yet. He says that this multidimension thing is the answer to de-ja-vu.

    Either way, proving this theory about multiple "dimensions" would be quite the feat. Seems impossible to me, but nothing is impossible I guess :) How do you prove we live in multiple dimensions? Why would we in the first place? What good does that offer? Personally I believe we just live a linear life from start to finish. There is no jumping around, but each individual lives his/her own life and makes their own decisions. Sometimes (a lot of times) these lives cross and funny things can happen, but there are no multi-dimensions to existence.

    About the original post, well it was an Advertisement right? Shouldn't that tell you something?
     
  10. Darolls

    Darolls F1 Veteran
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    No one can say why or how the Universe began, and where the ingredients to support the 'Big Bang Theory' came from!

    It's thought to have occured about 20 billion years ago so, what was there before that; empty space? If so, where did the empty space come from?

    My conclusion is, we will never know the answers!

    Since someone mentioned Steven Hawking, how many have read his book 'A Brief History of Time', or Carl Sagan's 'Broca's Brain'? Both very interesting reads.

    Oh yeah, Null Physics, I wouldn't waste 60 bucks on it!!
     
  11. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    God does not play dice with the Universe - but then, "What Happens in Las Vegas, STAYS in Las Vegas"...
     
  12. djui5

    djui5 F1 Veteran

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    So you think everything is masterfully planned?
     
  13. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

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    Uh, what do you expect the governments etc to do? Even a trip to Mars, which isn't even in our front yard but rather standing on our toes from a cosmical point of view, is incredibly difficult to undertake with people aboard. With current technology, machines can do nearly ANYTHING in space better than any human person could ever do. Taking men into space (beside places like the ISS close to earth) is a complete waste of time and money until proper technologies for travelling huge distances are developed, and for that development, we don't need anyone up there at the current stage, it's all about (theoretical) physics.
     
  14. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    The whole point of "Quantum Physics" is that "deep space" is merely an idea we made up our heads.

    "Electrons" are seen as objects by our brains. There is no keyboard in front of you. Your brain made it up.

    Space travel has nothing to do with these theories.

    Some of you are talking about 2 different things.

    I'm a quantum physics buff. I've read every theory out there. Quantum Physics is today what "the earth is flat" was in 1300's and 1400's. In my opinion of course.
     
  15. fastback33

    fastback33 Formula 3

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    Something, Anything! Why should we spend our entire existence here on earth waiting for things to come to us? I'd rather governments sent robots or whatever into space then nothing at all. Which is what it seems like is happening right now.

    You know i had this great idea on how to colonize Mars a couple months ago. Basically send a huge rock to mars with a bunch of bacteria that can survive in such harsh conditions and some how help it facilitate and grow. Then turning the planet green again while speeding up the entire process.
     
  16. ski_bum

    ski_bum Formula 3

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    Not a bad idea, except I don't think you really need to send the rock itself. However, I think we should verify that there is NO life on Mars before attempting such a feat.
     
  17. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    Um - I was not exactly the one that made up either the "Dice" OR the "Las Vegas" quotes.

    It is by now pretty clear and established science that on a quantum scale, individual events are indeed quite random.

    I have learned to accept that, even if it did seem to feel "not quite right" to me for some reason.
     
  18. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    So, should I take it that you have read (and agree with, judging the "flat earth" reference) the NULL PHYSICS thing? Interesting if you have; maybe it will save some others the fifty nine bucks if you could explain it in simple terms.
     
  19. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    I have not read the Null Physics book. I do not know what theory they're using.

    My post was in response to other posts regarding string theories and quantum physics.
     
  20. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    OK - and I too am not going to be the first to jump into this dark water as it seems to have a pretty whimsical basis.

    BTW, I am quite skeptical of string theory, but reluctantly accept the quantum rules for now. And, just for the record, am quite skeptical of the "dark matter"/"dark energy" hand-waving explanations for certain deep space observations.
     
  21. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

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    I give a lot to quantum physics. Much of what I've read I've used in my day to day life. It's sort of my religion you could say.

    The main reason being that we all only have 5 senses to interpret the world around us. I think there is a lot more going on than we have the ability to sense. Or, how can we even trust what our senses tell us?

    I've changed a lot of things in my life through meditation and visualization. I won't bore you with details unless you really want to talk about it.
     
  22. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

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    Imagine it is 1850 and you have a great idea for a new kind of combustion engine, small enough to be put in carriages. What do you do? Sit down at your desk and try to develop that idea or take the horses out with your carriage, just for the sake of doing something? And robot projects and that kind of stuff are permanently undertaken, but timeframes in space are so huge that those probes are travelling for a couple of years until they reach their destination, which might seem to you as "nothing happens":
     
  23. Baasha

    Baasha Formula 3

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    And to think that the people (most of us) who operate only with the 5 senses have the audacity to talk as if we know everything in the universe is the kind of despicable arrogance that scientists world over show. A lesson in humility is what they need.
     

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