MEGA THREAD : PORSCHE VS. NISSAN : New GTR : 7:15 around the Nurburgring?

Ha! Yes I think that would be a fitting description.

 

I knew it was bullsh!t from day one .

Ain't no nissan going to beat the Z06 for much less. It was backyard voodoo the whole time!.

 

Lucky you,! I have 90 degree turns everywhere I go, lol. There is one nice tight turn going under the BQE that i usually take sideways though.....

 

This is an interesting line, that must have been typed without much research.

If this was true, the GT-R wouldn't be on the same level as the cars it blew away on the 'Ring. Can't be when it did better on the longer course. Or maybe it really is, and just shows the car isn't all that and a bag of chips like the 7:29 time makes it out to be.

 

From GTRblog.com
http://www.gtrblog.com/index.php/2008/05/20/the-7-29-story-interview-with-tochio-suz?blog=4

"The Nissan GT-R’s recent amazing Nurburgring laptime was set by chief Nissan test driver Tochio Suzuki. Drivers Republic recently caught up with Suzuki-san at the Nissan event at Estoril, Portugal for a chat on how the GT-R drove on that fateful day back in April.

The article has a couple of great bits of information like:

‘This time was set on a totally standard car, just like a customer will get. For us ‘Time Attack’ must be repeatable in a customer car. No special brake pads or cut-slick tyres - everything was standard GTR.’ The time, set on April 8th, was achieved on the Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST tyre that is standard on the basic GTR (i.e. non Premium or ‘Black’ spec, which both have Bridgestone RE070R tyres). The Dunlop is a little noisier and not quite as good in the wet as the RE070R, but in the dry it’s worth 4-5 seconds around the ‘Ring.

Drivers-Republic.com

Mizuno also showed journalists the data trace for the 7.29 lap which goes to show how comitted Suzuki-san was to that lap - twice reaching 290 kph and averaging 1.3 lateral G in turns. Suzuki-san goes on to predict the V-Spec will lap 10 seconds faster than the 7.29 base model GT-R mostly due to a more aggressive tire.

Head on over to their website to read the full article although signup is required to view the pics"

 

http://www.drivers-republic.com/news/news_article_14_05_08.cfm

14/05/2008

Nissan GT-R (The story behind that 7 minute 29 second lap)
Author: Jethro Bovingdon
Videographer: Dave Litchfield

It's old news that the Nissan GTR is rewriting the rules on what's possible for a relatively affordable and everyday usable super-coupe and that it recently lapped the Nordschliefe in 7:29 - setting a new benchmark for fully homologated production cars. But meeting the man who set the time, Tochio Suzuki, and the man in control of the car's development from the ground up, Kazutoshi Mizuno, is a great opportunity to witness first hand just how obsessive Nissan are about the GTR. And how proud they are that it has undoubtedly set new standards for everyone else to be judged against. Grabbing a couple of laps of Estoril with Suzuki is pretty revealing, too...

First up that Nurburgring lap. The target for the GTR was always 7:30 - and it had to be achieved in a fully representative 'customer-spec' car. Mizuno is quite clear on this: 'This time was set on a totally standard car, just like a customer will get. For us 'Time Attack' must be repeatable in a customer car. No special brake pads or cut-slick tyres - everything was standard GTR.' The time, set on April 8th, was achieved on the Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST tyre that is standard on the basic GTR (i.e. non Premium or 'Black' spec, which both have Bridgestone RE070R tyres). The Dunlop is a little noisier and not quite as good in the wet as the RE070R, but in the dry it's worth 4-5 seconds around the 'Ring. Incredibly all the tests of the GTR in the UK so far have been on the slower Bridgestone - and yet it has consistently set faster lap times than cars like the GT3.

Suzuki is quietly spoken and although he doesn't like to conduct interviews in English he's eloquent when talking about the lap. 'The conditions were perfect. I don't think the car could go faster. Its main strength is stability - on the brakes and in the corners. And the tyres are very consistent.' Is there a scary part of the circuit? - a key section to getting a good time but also the bit you don't look forward to? 'No. The lap was optimum but the car is predictable and easy to drive on the limit.'

The data trace that Mizuno is proud to take me through suggests that Suzuki is being ridiculously modest. The peak lateral G figure is 1.4 - and the car averages 1.3G from corner to corner. The GTR hits 290kph twice on its way to that lap time. The throttle position graph tells of total commitment (TPOS on the graph). Lapping a 1740kg road car in 7:29 is simply a phenomenal achievement...

Incredibly there's more to come. Mizuno, Suzuki and the rest of the team are already well into the V-Spec development programme. Both men are tight lipped about the project but with an increase in power (to around 550bhp) and a 100kg weight saving, the V-Spec should move the GTR even further ahead of its rivals. Suzuki thinks the car should be as much as 10-seconds quicker than the standard car around the 'Ring. However, the V-Spec will have more extreme track-biased tyres, which will account for a large chunk of the time saving.

Suzuki is on full PR duty, demonstrating the GTR to dozens of journalists around the Estoril circuit. I sense he's bored, hence the early quick and tidy laps becoming more lurid as the day goes on. You can hear that the GTR is fully sideways well before each corner from the pit wall - the tyres wailing under the torture - and the spectacular drifting is necessitating a fresh set of Dunlops with virtually every fuel stop. But when I jump in beside him I ask him to do a proper lap first, and then a silly one. He nods approvingly.

First impression is once again just how fast the GTR is - most cars feel blunted on a wide track but the Nissan still feels immense, the power ramping up with every instantaneous gearchange. Suzuki is super-aggressive on the brakes but smooth on corner entry. However he then has to wait for the front to bite and it takes a couple of exploratory prods of the accelerator before the nose sticks and Suzuki can fully commit the twin-turbo 3.8-litre V6. Estoril is smooth and wide, unlike the Nordschleife and you can tell the GTR isn't as suited to this sort of modern circuit. It's still very fast but the weight does tend to push the front wide and Suzuki is more often managing the power than simply unleashing it.

Having said that, the GTR's body control is exceptional and the brakes seem to shrug off the weight. Through the Parabolica - a long fast right-hander where you'd expect the car to start understeering, it stays neutral and Suzuki pours more and more power down to the track. Impressive stuff. Check out the video to see Suzuki at work - we'll also have the full 7:29 lap up soon.

Lap 2 is slower but super-sideways. Suzuki just turns the GTR in on the brakes, waits for the slide to build and then flattens the throttle to pull the car straight. Sometimes it needs virtually full opposite lock but always the transition between grip-slip-grip is smooth and Suzuki is right on top of the car. Afterwards he says the car could be improved 'to give a little more feedback'. The V-Spec is truly going to be a special car.

 

Couple of key points:

1. I know who Jethro Bovington is... who is this other guy again?

2. Saying that other manufacturers set lap times of the ring from a standing start is simply wrong. Pagani also posted a vid of their time with a customer car. It is timed from a running start.... just like every other manufacturer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APbrjvadVA0

You guys are hilarious. Naysayers will take any scrap of material they can but the numbers and facts, and feats remain until proven otherwise.

 

In Britain, they tested a CUSTOMER car against the GT3 R8 and M3. The GTR beat them all.

GTR IS all that. You can't hold the mark-up price against it. GTR costs closer to 45KUSD in Japan. The fact that there are mark-ups is just proof it's a brilliant car if people are prepared to pay that much money for it.

 

I never knew whether standing starts or flying starts were the norm. I'm glad you pointed this out.

Yeah I really don't understand the ones who keep trying to poke holes in the GT-R's armor. I would understand if they were a bunch of snobs who felt bad about spending $130,000 on their 911 Turbos or the like, but the biggest naysayers are folks like me who don't even drive a real sportscar (at least according to the profiles).

 

It isn't all that. Well, 'isn't all that', in referring to the fact that it can't actually beat a Carrera GT or 997 GT2(yet?) like Nissan would like you to think, but it is pretty impressive in that it can run with a GT3/RS or Superleggera.

 

Erm... for beating a pretty dedicated track car... it IS all that. It was built to beat the 997 Turbo. It did that. Case closed.

 

If that's the argument then I'm sure Nissan can live with that.

 

I could care less what lies Nissan told....the car is ugly and HUGE. I'd take a ZO6 anyday over one....

 

Here's the youtube link to Autocar's test run
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8 (part 1 of 3).

 

The GT-R is an incredible car. Simple as that.

 

it maybe a super fast car but it sure is ugly ....quick but ugly........

 

Sir you have no credibility. You stand in the face of facts, videos, documents, reviews and blatantly say that Nissan is lying. You have presented this theory time and time again in every GTR thread but have failed to prove anything. I don't mind educated argument but ignorant, blanket statements are a waste of everyones time.

 

I am sure plenty of people could careless of what lies you told. There is nothing wrong with being a GM fan, but stop being so insecure in front of the Nissan.

 

Like I'm the only one doubting the times? Give us a break fanboy.

 

Lies I told? That makes sense! Guess you mean Nissan's....

 

There is an grand canyon between doubting and repeatedly saying that the company lied. You are a joke.

 

I know that, and it's impressive. However, I'm merely saying that it isn't the kind of car that can continuously beat a Zonda or Carrera GT just because of the 'Ring time (which is what Nissan would probably like you to think), but it is pretty close because it can still dominate 3/4th of Porsche's line-up.

 

The GT-R may be quick.

At the end of the day it's still just a Nissan.

 

And a Ferrari is still just a Fiat.

Judging a car on brand alone is not laudable, at least for a supposed car enthusiast.