Well, the shop tells me that the shift shaft seals are leaking a bit. What? Again?!!? I replaced these at 45K in Dec '00, and again at 60K in Dec '02. It's been 5+ years, but only a few K on the clock. I shift "briskly", but at "6 hours" labor to replace, this is getting ridiculous. Are there upgraded seals (328) that don't go bad every couple of years? Or is this just one of the "consumable" parts?
DGS, I upgraded to QUAD-RING® Seals for my 308 GTB three years ago. No leaks since. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=135474269#post135474269 Barry
Mine's been leaking the 1 1/2 yrs. I've had the car but very minimal-none on the floor after a drive. I've been told not to be concerned about replacement, yet, by my mechanic. Good info, thanks. Curious to hear what other's have experienced with this seal. JEff
DGS, I'll be happy to sell you a pair of Viton Quad seals for the shaft. Email me & they'll ship tomorrow. Jeff, Keep an eye on your sump & transmission oil levels. The big concern with the shift seals is when one fluid begins diluting the other changing it's characteristics. Also, each time you check your oil, sniff the dipstick to see if it smells like tranny fluid.
Mine leak a little too. I need to replace them at the next service. Never been done before and they're getting worse.
Yes, get used to it. The Japanese would have thought of some kind of a complex shift linkage. Only the Italians would say ... let's just drill right through the oil pan to get to the transmission.
Probably overdoing this. Smells and looks like engine oil only to me. I mispoke, I did have a couple drops from that area one time only a few months ago. Definitely engine oil only. Thanks for the concern, though. What has to be done to replace these seals exactly? Jeff
Verrell, will these seals fit a 75 308 gt4? I'll be doing mine in the next couple of weeks and don't want to use o-rings if the quads are superior and will fit ok.
Hmm. Everyone speaks of the shift shaft seal, but I hadn't realized there are two of them: at each end of the shaft inside the lump. The shifter diagram doesn't show where it sits in the lump. You'd think a shop would replace both while they're at it. I had a few drips before I had one replaced as part of a major service. The second time the "shift shaft seal" leak was diagnosed, I was leaving transmission oil puddles on the ground. If the shift shaft goes through the oil pan, I'd think the trans oil would go into the engine oil, rather than onto the ground. This time, there were no external symptoms that I noticed. The dealer diagnosed it (along with CV boot leaks) when it was in for other things. (Or is this one of those "automatic" diagnostics -- the way every Toyota shop figures a new set of brake rotors "couldn't hoit"? ) Are these like the McMaster QuadRing seals, or something different? (I'm going to have to get eddykated about the seals, if it's going to be diagnosed every time it goes into the shop.) That's the question, I guess. Is replacing both a do-it-yourself afternoon job? Does it take draining both the engine and transmission oils? (Alas, the garage at my house is even smaller than the one I had in the condo.) The car's currently at a Ferrari dealer, so they may be restricted to using "official" parts. (You wouldn't believe what they quoted for a set of brass injectors.)
The shift shaft has to go through the engine sump to get to the transmission. So there is one seal in the front wall of the engine which keeps the engine oil from coming out onto the ground on the front of the engine. There is another seal in the wall of the engine betweeen the engine and the transmission which keeps the engine oil from getting into the tranny and vice versa. I would however be highly skeptical of a shop telling me the shift shaft seal inside the engine is leaking when I just replaced them a few years ago. The leak would have to be fairly significant to detect the tranny oil in the engine oil I would think. But who knows. I would definitely use the quad ring seals. The quad seals are much better than plain o-rings. (They are used in underwater camera systems all the time and I can tell you they are much better.) Replacement is not difficult but is a lot easier on a lift. You need to remove the engine and transmission pans, disconnect the shift shaft linkage, remove the shift shaft, which sometimes involves removing one engine mount and using a lever to shift the engine position a bit to get it out. Then replacing the seals takes about 5 minutes. Now put the shift shaft back in and re-align the shifter forks, which is the tricky part. Replace the gaskets, engine pans, add oil and you are done. Birdman
My mechanic down in Charleston, four years ago, said the OEM seals were crap and would fail within 3 years. I heard the same thing from F-car mechanics here in MA as well. Mine are leaking badly (four years to the dot), resulting in the whole bottom of the engine being coated with oil when you drive the car - THEN it drips all over the floor, in different spots, when the car is parked. Hey, Birdman, do we wanna take pics of mine, and post it here for the world to see?
I thought the same thing when I took my car to a Ferrari dealership once - NOPE. I was rebuked/chided by the Shop Forman about that. Ferraris are NOT ALLOWED to leak oil. American Harleys, fine. Tired, high-mileage machines? Okay. Beat ricers, trucks, Fiats, etc. Alright. Ferrari, the pride of Italy? Ah, no....unacceptable. Now, Burning Oil during normal driving conditions, well, that's okay within reason. But my car's oil drip, so I was told, was an affront to proper Italian engineering, something with my car was amiss, and needed to be corrected. If a Toyota can keep its liquids inside the engine, where they belong, so can a Ferrari. Now, this guy should have been in-the-room when this shift-shaft seal was being developed.....
Where was he when the drunk Italian design engineers said ... "let's drill through the oil pan to get to the transmission, and put o-rings in there?"
My 328 definetly has oil on the pan from this problem but only once 2 months ago(and none since???) dropped a couple drops on the floor. My '75 911 dripped a lot more oil than that for it's last 75K miles before selling at 100K-still a very strong engine remarkably at that point- so I'm not going to let this concern me for now. Probably be a if we're in there thing to replace. Definetly curious what options are available to replace that will improve the seal, though. Jeff
At this point, I'm more skeptical of the shop that told me the transmission oil leaking onto the ground was from the shift shaft seal. They charged me for two seals, but ... (But that just goes onto the list of other reasons I won't be using that shop again.) After a careful examination of the garage floor, I don't think it's to the point where I'd have to settle for factory seals from the dealership.
