FML Pricing and options for 550?

Please excuse my ignorance, but I'm very interested in making my first Ferrari purchase after lusting after one for decades, and for my needs the 550 is my target car. I've seen the declining price trend in the FML asking price index, and that doesn't really concern me - used cars depreciate, even Ferraris. My question is what does the asking price represent? Is it the average asking price in the current edition for the cars listed, or is it a wider number of cars used to get the price? Are the asking prices for dealer only cars, or for all cars?

The other issue is what does the price represent? The 550 was built from 1996 through 2001, and the FML lists only one price for the entire 550 Maranello production. Is that the price for the average year (1999), with how many miles and which options? What about colors? Or service history? How do you adjust for these variables?

Sorry to pepper you with questions, but I'm not sure what I'm looking at when I see the FML current average price, which is about $110,000. I've seen cars offered for $30,000 less on EBAY (and I can imagine why), all the way to $30,000 over the asking price on the FML listings, again I assume some special equipment/options etc. The point is I don't know what a fair price is for a 550, and with the number of low priced cars offered at far below the average asking price, I'm afraid to make any commitment.

Is there any definitive place to find the original Ferrari retail price for these cars by year, the options offered and their cost, and what colors were offered - both interior and exterior? I've not been able to find this information anywhere, but it's probably my lack of knowledge about where to look.

Thanks to all for the help - this is a very fine forum - you have no idea how good it is compared to other brand specific forums. You should all take a bow - good info, fast replies, and friendly conversation - a very rare treat.

Thanks in advance.

 

The latest FML issue lead article is "JUST THE FAQS, MA'AM" which answers your questions regarding their index......in short it is a trailing average of asking prices taken from multiple sources, and it does not provide granularity between model years, mileage, options, condition, service history, colors, etc. which ALL matter when determining true market value. Search the FerrariChat archives to get a sense for the value and mechanical issues with 550s. Talk with knowledgeable dealers and owners, get additional valuation data from N.A.D.A., CPI Value Guide, etc. Ultimately, the Ferrari market is so "thin" that a instantaneous market valuation is only determined when a buyer and seller close a deal.....

Lastly, the 550 is a phenomenal car and a bargain at today's valuations......mine is now dearly missed.....

 

Ask NNO

 

The short answer is that there does not exist "one" resource on 550s, but this forum is as good a place as any to piece together the info you will need to make an informed decision. There are also a few 'buyers guide" type periodicals out there you can locate for little $$ that make good primers to what you will learn on this forum.

One can get tied up in knots on accumulating minutiae on these vehicles. Rather than worrying about things that won't have much bearing on getting a good price on a well-cared for 550 (like knowing how many types of blues there were or how many came with Daytona seats, etc) I would encourage you to spend your time understanding what to look for in a good example, figure out what you really want from the vehicle (usage patterns, lifestyle, etc) and go from there.

Since there are so many variables - condition, miles, color combos, options, add-ons and mods, model years, etc etc - focus on what aspects are most important to you and then jettison those examples that don't match those parameters. Otherwise, i think you will find yourself overwhelmed with all the vehicles in the market and the possible permutations. You can very easily end up chasing your tail and wasting a lot of time.

Also, research some Fchat threads that discuss "typical" flaws in the 550s and/or things to look out for. Motor mounts, wheel leather shrinkage, and weatherstripping "peel" are just a few things that come up a lot on these vehicles. Understanding what service bulletins were issued and what items should have already been addressed on a 550 you are considering will give you a lot of insight into whether the previous owner(s) were diligent about maintaining their 550s and/or appreciated some of the hidden costs of ownership of these fine motorcars.

The rest is pretty commonsensical and will come with time.

Enjoy the hunt. Keep us posted.

ketel

 

It's very simple - make a list of all the 550's you can find and compare them for options etc. Then go and visit a couple. You'll quickly discover what is a fair price for which vehicle. There is a spreadsheet in this section which I created when I was looking for a 550 last year. You may find it helpful, although it was made for the European market.

When you finally make your selection my recommendation is that you rather pay a bit more for a really nice car than go bargain hunting.

Sorry to be a bit 'unhelpful', but in my experience you can't really learn this stuff other than the hard way. The market is also constantly changing. If you spend a month or two looking and talking to dealers, you'll get a real good sense for what is going to be the best buy. I'm not an expert on the US market but I suggest you look in the $90k - $110k bracket for a very nice car. Be warned: there's plenty rough 550's out there and they are not cheap cars to fix or keep in great shape.

Enjoy the hunt. I know I did!


Onno

 

+1 to what JazzyO said.

i searched for quite a while for my 550. it ultimately fell in my lap locally, but that was just dumb luck.

do be careful about buying the cheapest car you find .

also make sure you search the archives here re: recalls and TSBs.

as to original prices, there is a site somewhere (?) where folks enter in their window stickers. but not sure what the win of that info is. if your interest is re: options, there are detailed threads on FChat about that sort of stuff.

finally, i'd suggest that (IME FWIW) the FML pricing index represents high numbers. whether that's 'cuz folks only list the creme-de-a-creme in there or whether folks just ask high prices in there - i dunno. but don't be freaked out by cars that vary from those numbers. build your own spreadsheet and come up with your own averages.

g/l!

it's a STUPENDOUS car.

doody.

 

Amazing - I post yesterday and within a day there are lots of very helpful, informative replies. Thank you.

I'm looking at a 2000 model 550, just under 15K miles, grigio ingrid/sabbia with the carbon fiber interior option and what appears to be the Daytona seats. The interior roof has that beautifully stitched leather liner, and the rear storage area behind the driver does as well - sorry, I don't know how to better describe it.

The car is from a very reputible specialist dealer, with recent service and brand new clutch, but I'm afraid the price is above my limit. (I'm not really sure how to price these cars). I do like the car a lot, never have seen that color combination - it is very attractive.

Any other comments are welcome.

 

I don't want to raise any undo concern, but 550s have a reputation accumulating high milage (>50K) without needing a clutch.

Maybe 100% city driving with lots of stop-and-go??

 

Although reputation is important, it's not all important, in the sense that unless the dealer gives you an ironclad warranty, it will be important for you to get a pre-purchase inspection (PPI). This step should not be optional if the dealer is unwilling to stand behind the car being sound- in writing.

Another thing you should look for is a complete set of maintenance records. If those don't exist I would pass even if you are tempted. There are many very, very fine 550's out there in private hands who are willing to sell and you should resist the temptation to snap up one of the first ones that tempt you- unless the above conditions are met.

Happy hunting!

 

Well said!

 

Thank you all for the replies.

How did you find your car? Did you work with a local dealer, and if so did you buy from his inventory or have him find you a car? Did you find a car through word of mouth from current owners? What do you suggest I try? An issue may be the PPI, there are not a lot of Ferrari experts in the state, and those that are are few and far between. A seller may be reluctant to drive 50-75 miles for a PPI.

Thoughts?

 

I've acquired cars though all of the methods you listed. My 550 was purchased from the inventory of my local dealer.

The key is for you to become comfortable with the condition and history of the car prior to purchase. As previously noted in this thread, the "word" of a dealer or broker who has no warranty obligation is worthless and the consequences of an undiscovered problem are substantial. When I sold my 550 I had no hesitation to drive over 100 miles round trip for the PPI and the buyer flew into my city......twice! In the mid-1990's I paid my mechanic to fly from California to Oregon to PPI car. If your are nervous about buying the car, it kills the fun!

 

The Ferrari market is truly a national market. As a serious buyer in this market you do hold a lot of cards. But you should be willing to do a day trip to actually see the car. There are many perfectly good ways to find a car. If you want a labor free process then you'll need to be willing to pay for the labor, eg pay a broker or pay retail (dealer) prices in return for a warranty and peace of mind. This will add anywhere between 10-25,000 to the price.

You can look on the auction sites but buyer beware- you MUST be willing to go out and see the car and get a PPI. Do not actually place a bid on a car unseen and uninspected!!!!

I first heard of my car through Ebay. Cars rarely sell: the seller uses Ebay as a cheap advertising site with national exposure. I contacted the seller after the auction ended, asked a number of questions: the answers satisfied me to the point where I flew out to Seattle for the day (from Ohio) and had pre-arranged a PPI through the local Ferrari club with a trusted independent mechanic. I saw the car, drove it and had the PPI in hand before I left for the day.

This Board is invaluable for advice and help. Often, it can provide "eyes on the ground" to actually check a car out before you commit to travel. More often than not it can also recommend a trusted mechanic.

I'd suggest you think about what kind of colors, etc you might be interested in, post that here and you may get some leads on a car. Otherwise, start looking in the Ferrari Market Letter to get an idea of what's out there. The prices are asking prices and invariably higher than true market price but I would not go searching for a low ball car as it may come back to bite you.

You should be able to get a beautiful 550 that has been completely sorted out and with mileage below 20K as well as a recent major for under 100K, perhaps WELL under depending upon how anxious the seller is.

 

Thanks again - more good advice. Any comments on price? What range should I expect from the 1997 to 2001 models, considering mileage and condition. The local dealers suggest that the 2000-2001 cars, with miles under 15K, service history and no stories should sell for $115-135K. Anything under $90K, in their opinion, is almost certainly a problem child.

The FML asking price index lists the cars at just under $110K asking, but many people on this forum suggest that with some due diligence and patience, a fine car can be found for $90K or so.

I'm not sure what resale projections are, but I'm concerned about values 5 years out, when I'll be selling my car.

Anyone have any experience with these issues and pricing guidelines?

Thanks again - your forum is amazing.

 

Do not forget that there is a "wiggle room" factor for services and belt jobs. That alone could very well explain a $5-7K difference. Like others have said, it takes some time on the ground (or air) to visit a few and drive some. It will then become apparent to you what a good car really is, and what other people are asking for cars with similar options and condition. Older 550s are, after all, 11 year old automobiles that have likely seen a couple previous owners who may or may not have kept the services up to date.

Happy hunting, half the fun is in the search

 

I have only seen a few 550s "in the flesh" and before making the plunge I'd like to see other color combinations and option choices, but my selection is limited locally. One of this forum's members kindly posted several colors, but I'd like to see them in the flesh.

Is there someplace to find the original Ferrari color choices and option list by year? The local dealer doesn't have the information, and didn't seem very eager to find it. I called Ferrari NA and they were rather "distant", telling me that they relied upon their dealer network to answer such questions and that they "don't offer a retail service". Kinda snooty and unnecessary in my opinion, but seems they've been successful without me so far.

By the way, is it typical for the V-12 cars to depreciate so rapidly? It's hard for me to believe that I can buy a V-12 nearly 500 HP Ferrari in excellent condition, with low miles and service history for about 40% of the new car price less than 10 years ago. The 360 has held up very well on a relative basis, but a V-12 for less than a V-8? Both cars have "in car engine service", so the major services don't seem to account for the difference. Is it that the V-12s are sought by the "more mature" driver, and the money is chasing the "hot" car? Gosh, when did I get this old?

I've read some horror stories about upkeep costs (the Michael Sheehan article), but I'm sure that's not typical. Some PM replies have been amazingly free of upkeep costs - very encouraging.

If a 10 year old Ferrari V-12 is unloved by the world, is priced at 60% off, and still can put smiles on my face for days, it's hard to not indulge my lifelong desire to own one. It's just my nervousness and the lack of backup money if anything goes wrong that is causing me concern. That, and the fear of $75K in depreciation, maintenance, property taxes and insurance costs over the next five years. If I knew those costs would be half of that I'd buy my dream car in a heartbeat. I actually stopped dead and stared at the 550 the first time I saw one in person. My wife had to nudge me to get a response. The car was black, with the tan/black interior complete with stitched roof liner and rear shelf, rolled and pleated seats and black floor. It was the most beautiful car I ever saw, and I've been lusting over one ever since.

By the way, my current toy is a 2007 Honda VFR, bought new a few months ago as a leftover mode. It's powered by a 781cc V-Tech engine, changing from 2 to 4 valve per cylinder operation at 7K RPM. Redline 11,5000 RPM. 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, 0-100 just over 7 seconds. That 781 cc engine puts out 102 HP, according to one article, and 96 HP to the rear wheel. That's 130 HP per liter - and all of that costs under $10,000 brand new, out the door. And many younger riders complain that the bike is a "pig" because it weighs over 500 pounds. For the same money they can buy a Honda 600RR, adding almost 40HP and dropping over 100 pounds. Simply amazing.

I've been on Virginia International Raceway with the Keith Code Superbike school riding both a Moto Guzzi (my personal bike at the time) and a Kawasaki race prepped motorcycle - if you want to scare yourself silly, but smile for a week, I highly recommend it. Acceleration and turns in a Ferrari are amazing, but on two wheels there is nothing else like it.

Sorry for the rant, I feel better. Thanks.

 

Your statement Lencap: "It's just my nervousness and the lack of backup money if anything goes wrong that is causing me concern. "


Therein lies the problem, perhaps a Ferrari is just not in the cards at this moment. You really need to be prepared for the things that could happen. Nothing could be worse than having a beautiful car in the garage that will not run because you did not have the money to fix it or service it properly. Then think about how hard it would be to sell.

 

A perfect 10 year-old 550/355 could easily serve-up a $5-15K surprise; its just part of the deal.

 

Heck, you're looking at almost a couple grand for a set of tires. Those are things you really need to think about.

 

As everyone else has said here - don't buy a 550 unless you're comfortable with the costs. It should be source of enjoyment, not agony. If your budget is a bit tight, buy a 328 or something similar and use the money saved on the purchase to start a Ferrari fund that you can run the car on for the next 10 years.

Believe me: you don't have more fun in a 550. A 3x8 is a fantastic car as well with just as much kudos. Just a different experience, that's all. It's more of a sporty drive in a V8 - the 550 has stupendous torque, you don't drive it on revs as much.

And as teachdna said: go and look at cars yourself, and if you like one have a PPI done.


Onno

 

Hmmm...lencap, could you PM me with more info on this car? What dealer has it, etc? I might know the car already...

ketel

 

Hmm, backup costs are a concern... You should pause for a good long while before you pursue a car. Maintenance for thee cars is key and you can't skimp. In terms of depreciation, I think the worst is over and you're not going to lose 75K in 5 years as car depreciation follows a well defined curve that flattens as the car gets older.

There are a number of threads where the annual costs are described. A "major" which Ferrari NA wants you to do every 3 years is costly. I would say that many, probably the majority of people who own 550's believe that's ridiculous and do majors every 5 years (myself included). I've never seen any undue wear. A major can vary from 5-7.5K so that's not a minor expense for a lot of people on this board. Year in and year out you should budget an average of 1500-2500 for yearly costs if you're really going to keep the car up.

My guesstimate for a '97 car with less than 15-20K on it and a recent major done, with all records, keys and complete servicing each year, with all updates and fixes done, would be in the range of 85-95K from a private owner, depending upon their motivation. That same owner, if s/he sold to a dealer, would be lucky to be offered 72-78K so that gives you an idea of the profit that the retailer needs to stay in business.

Where are you located?

 

I have been a stealth member of FC for a good while- terrific Board. This is my first post.

I, too, have looked at the 2001 Grigio Ingrid/ Sabbia 550. Great (though rare- especially in a 550) color combo- had a 360 spyder done the same way. The car was orogonally sold in FL and spent a while in SC.

I was told the clutch problem was a throw-out bearing and while in there, they replaced the clutch disc.

If anyone has information on the car, I'd appreciate a post or PM.

Many thanks.

 

The first flight in was great in the opportunity to meeting Roy and seeing that the car was exactly how it was being represented. The second flight was 2 days later to drop off the big check and roll the 550 onto the trailer for the trip home.

FYI, the car is running great. Last week I did break down and change out that good old stock stereo deck for a Pioneer.

 

When I began looking for our 550 I compiled a list of all 550's on the market and narrowed the list down to a couple in San Diego and a couple in San Francisco. At the same time I was doing my research, Roy (Fchat Nerd) was kind enough to assist me with answering questions and pointing out items to be concerned with on the 550 model. After the 2 San Diego cars fell through, Roy and I spoke and just so happen to he was thinking about selling his 550. Some, photos and a couple of calls resulted in a PPI and ultimately purchasing the car.

If you are looking at a car, you might want to post a note on the Fchat board for the region the car might be in to see who they recommend for a PPI. Also, if the distance between the car and the PPI is considerable, you might want to see if the transport costs for the PPI could be considered in the purchase price.

Whether you buy the car from the dealer or a private owner, having a any previous history on the car should be considered a plus. This will also help you in determining the extent the PPI is conducted.