the nasty note

The amount of frowns will increase in direct proportion to the price of gas. There have always been rich people and poor people and many levels in between. Look at the Dusenberg that was produced during the depression when people were starving and standing in soup lines. It must have taken a big ego to wheel a Dusenberg through Hollywood when people were struggling to survive and fleeing the dust bowl areas in a desperate attempt to scratch out a living somewhere, anywhere.

I think that anybody who drives a flashy car might make an effort to fly a little "under the economic radar" and be considerate of other people who are barely able to fill their gas tanks. Perhaps birds of a feather will flock together and Ferrari owners will only associate with other Ferrari owners who understand that a shiney red 308 is not a $200,000 gas guzzler the way that Joe Econobox seems to think. I would be wary of the redneck resentment factor and hope to avoid tire slashings and paint scratching that occurs in the middle of the night from the "have nots".
(many years ago, a neighbor's bright red Porsche was keyed down both sides by such "night trolling" trash.)

 

I too have wondered when the tide will turn against exotics. While you are absolutely correct about how little they are used, and therefore have an actual carbon footprint smaller than a prius driven daily, they are an easy target. Not only do exotics look flashy, they aren't as "real world" practical as SUVs/pickups are...they can't hold 5-9 passengers, no large cargo capacity, can't tow stuff, etc.

Hummers were popular targets because they get bad mileage AND have some emotional/philosophical tie to American Imperialism (i.e., they look like the vehicles the military uses in Iraq). Exotics get bad mileage AND have some emotional/philosophical tie to conspicuous consumption, not so good in an economic downturn. Many people will use this against owners of these vehicles. It may be out of touch with reality, it may be a ridiculous logical stretch, it may be emotion vs. reason, but some people will be able to justify increasing hatred of exotic owners.

As with most problems of perception versus reality, I'm not sure how to counteract it. It may just be a storm you have to ride out.

 

Here in Europe, we've been dealing with high gas prices for a much longer time than you guys in the US do (to our standards, your current price level everyone here's complaining about is still ridiculously low). The effect has been that, as you describe, the vast majority of cars has become more and more fuel efficient over the years. Look at the average compact car like, whatever, a VW Golf or a Renault Megane or a Fiat Bravo and they'll all have a very low fuel consumption in relation to the performance and the space they offer. Then go out in a larger city with high average income like Frankfurt or Düsseldorf on a Sunday afternoon and you'll see LOADS of Ferraris, Lamborghinis and every exotic or luxury car you can imagine - they're not gone, they just co-exist. There hasn't been one single point in time that a difference between "economically and ecologically friendly compact car" and "gas guzzling exotic" has been made, it was a process over decades that seperated those types of cars.

However, I think that the situation will be different in the US. Your gas prices didn't rise gradually to a high level like here, it just comes now in a short timeframe. Furthermore, from personal observation, I see that the average US citizen has a certain way of tending to overreact (can't prove that in any way, just the way I notice it from the media and various, primary internet, places where I communicate with people from the US). So I can indeed imagine that there'll be a 'movement' against any car that has bad drinking habits - no matter if it's a SUV being driven dozens of miles daily or a sportscar that leaves the garage only once a week.

 

My 360 gets 12 miles to the gallon around town and about 20 on the highway.

That's better than 75% of those giant gas guzzling SUVs, and my 360 will get driven perhaps 3000-4000 miles this year.

If I wasn't in the Ferrari, I'd be driving my Acura which gets about 19/25. soooo... at a mileage differential of about 7 mpg, those 3000-4000 miles cost about 120 extra gallons of gas @ $4/gallon, or about $500.00 PER YEAR. The jack ass who owns an SUV that gets 12 mpg ALL THE TIME is going to use 300+ more gallons than my Acura does to go the same 15,000 miles a year I cover with that car.

So, who is wasting more gas again? Which guy should be getting nasty notes on his car? And which guy will?

However, which car will still be selling well in two years, and which one, finally, will fall away to smaller, lighter and more practical mini vans and small station wagons?

The guys who drive exotics will continue to drive them. but the moms who are hauling ass around in a SUV, by themselves, will move to smaller cars, and not a moment too soon.

DM

 

Simply put, people are generally ignorant of the facts because they believe what they WANT to believe.

Whenever I run into one of those judgemental ignoramuses I will gun the viper or the E55 and smile and wave. I get great glee from knowing it ruins their day.

 

That, and the fact that there are a lot of people around who never earned anything. They project that experience onto others, and figure they got their Hummer (Ferrari, Bertram, Gulfstream, mansion, ranch, Patek, whatever) by doing nothing or, best case, through some environment-raping, lower-class-screwing, tax-dodging corporate scheme. They really don't want to believe that there are productive members of society who have a lot of material wealth because they earned it through education, dedication, hard work and maybe a little luck. They are the people who, because of our changing demographics and cultural shifts, will be running this country before too long. Buckle up.

Jack.

 

It's all perception. Those hybrid Chevy Tahoes aren't selling, and they have passable fuel economy, but you look like a clueless bastard driving one anyway.

I'm glad to see Hummer go away. I can understand, having worked on a horse farm, that Ford F150s are necessary in some settings. I have never figured out a reason, other than vanity, for the Hummer non-military vehicles. Or the Escalade, or the Lincoln Blackwood, etc. The problem is those were all intended as daily drivers, whereas Ferraris never have been.

With regard to Ferrari, I think it's pretty common knowledge that these cars don't get driven much, and that there aren't enough of them to make a difference. I don't even know what kind of mileage the 328 gets, and I almost never see another Ferrari on the road.

 

Good luck towing a trailer with a Prius

Good luck getting a few 2x4's home from Home Depot. (maybe we should rent a truck)

Good luck getting 4 youth hockey kids to a remote game with all there equipment. (maybe we should take 4 cars)

Good luck getting 4 husky men to a construction site in a civic. That would actually be pretty funny. I bet they would have to carry it in.



I really, really, really, have a problem with these judgemental butt plugs deciding my fate and threatening my wife when she takes the Yukon to the mall because I need the Audi for a long distance task.

Liberal Elitist Fools...Conservation means far more than a ridiculous little car. When you bought your new Prius, what did you do with your old car????? Recycled it, right.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=199894
Eco-terrorist soldiers in the war on Freedom.
Thats my last nerve...are you sure you want to get on it?

 

Yes; this is a very slippery slope we are headed down. I have already had to deal with a PETA Hippy chick (IT needed a shave) at a car show. Complained about all the cows I killed and sprayed fake blood on my roadster interior because it was leather. Then a few weeks ago a PRISSYIUS driver called me a GAS HOLE at the stop light; He didnt know my 3500 Dodge gets 22 MPG around town but we are going to have to stop this Hoax of global warming and class envy soon..

 

No one will ever key Al Gore's jets. The Kennedy's jets and yachts are safe, too.

Keying "gas guzzlers" is limited...there is a political elite that is exempt from such brownshirt tactics, for the rest of the U.S., we're arriving at a point where strongarm tactics are being used to influence public behavior (i.e. you are being intimidated by thugs).

 

Life in the USA existed prior to the invention of these 5000 lb behemoths.
I for one would feel safer on the road if these mobile tanks for soccer moms were no longer fashionable.

While we are at it, can we get rid of the Volvo drivers too?

 

It is a sad state of affairs when self righteous liberals hop out of their personal jets to admonish the little people as to how they should live their lives, what cars they should be allowed to drive, what hours of the day they can buy electricity, what health insurance they must buy and how much carbon emissions they must pay a tax on.

This probably belongs in P&R but I am always amazed at how few liberals are willing to admit their political belief in more taxes, bigger government, less individual rights, even the title "liberal" (oh no, I'm not a liberal, I'm a progressive!").

Meanwhile the same scientists that tried to convince us in the 1970's of the coming ice age now have shifted to global warming and, just as that trend seems to have reversed itself, have adopted "climate change" since that covers all bases, plus or minus!

It doesn't matter whether the temperature is going up by 0.75 degrees or down by 0.75 degrees, it must be our fault and therefore big benevolent government will step in to protect us from ourselves by taking more money out of our wallets in the name of the "greater good of society". The same government that bankrupted social security and medicare now wants to control even more of our lives.

And gullible people buy the crap that gore, obama, clintons, pelosi, edwards, reid and kennedy are shoveling out.

There, rant done, I almost feel better.

 

Just my 2 cents. I drive my fcar about 2500 miles a year compared to most soccer mom's SUVs and those 4 door 4x4 trucks which are probably closer to 15,000/yr.(my driver 528 BMW gets 22 in town and 28 on the hiway). The Ferrari used less than 1/2 the natural resources, weight wise, to build it. More than likely no energy will be spent on recycling it since we as owners now are just care takers ie; average SUV will be done in 10-12 yrs and have to be recycled. All Ferraris have paid a gas guzzler tax(ie; carbon tax) for about the last 20 years.
If you want to see the SUV/4x4 market dry up and blow away apply the same gas guzzler statute to those big pieces of ****.
Not only do these monsters weigh twice(wasting resources) what a normal car weighs they get less than 1/2 the fuel mileage, handle and brake to the point they are dangerous to drive and 90% of those on the road are driven by people who don't need them.
Sorry for the rant but I'm tired of the waste these things create and I am a lover of all machinery but there comes a point to draw a line on what is wasteful

 

So I pulled up to the light, blipped the throttle (nice Tubi bbbrapp) and this scrubby young lady today in a 20 year old Corolla put down her cell phone long enough to blabber something about my stupid car today.

You know- it's unreal. This person was completely oblivious to the fact that her young passenger was not in his seatbelt, and jumping around the front seat.

As if in some way me driving this fancy car comes even remotely close to the emotional or physical damage that would be sustained if she had a lapse in judgement and smashed into a curb-killing what was probably her little brother.

Just recently a chick on a cell phone in a Prius ran a stop sign and totaled my M5. It's just unbelievable this perception that fuel prices are the biggest problem in the whole world. It's lack of concern for other people and self-absorption.

 

I think you'll find that the largest increase in government size and spending has come under the current, supposedly conservative, Bush administration.

 

Far Out: "Here in Europe, we've been dealing with high gas prices for a much longer time than you guys in the US do (to our standards, your current price level everyone here's compling about is still ridiculously low). "

Why has Europe been dealing with much higher gas prices than the US?? Why are the USA's fuel prices ridiculously low?? Any truth to the rumor that European Citizens are taxed to death(when compared to the US)??? Is it possible that if the taxes are removed from the respective costs that we might be closer paying similar costs???
Just a few simple questions.
N Dennis

 

Good for you Jerry, everybody has to have a hobby!

 

You left out inherited money.

 

For those of you old enough to remember, during our last gas crisis didn't locking gas caps sell like hot cakes?

Has anybody been to a Peep Boys or Autozone lately?

Are they flying off the shelfs?

 

Because I am a foreigner (US Citizen) my wife (and son) are in the best German income tax bracket of all; Single Female w/Child at about 38% if I remember correctly.

As to the taxes on Motion Lotion (gas) the tax is just shy of 1 EU per liter with gas in the high 1.4x's (just over 1.50 EU in some places) EUs per liter.

 

I'm no fan of Bush's willingness to let every spending proposal under the sun get passed without a veto. In fact, when it comes to spending by the government, you can't tell the difference between the republicans and the democrats. They both seem to view the U.S. taxpayer as someone with an unlimited wallet to plunder. However, last time I looked we have had democratic control of both the house and senate for the last 4 years.

What will they go down in history for?

 

Prices of oil and gas for the most part are a global market. The chief difference between retail gas prices in Europe and the U.S. is taxes. Total state and federal taxes on gas in the U.S. are about $0.60/gallon on average while in Europe the gasoline that can be 7 or 8 times as high per gallon. So the tax on a gallon of gas in the U.S. is a bit more than 10% of the market price, in Europe it can be 150%.

 

While Ashman is correct that the Dems do have "control" of Congress by a thin majority, the massive deficit increase started under Reagan in 1981 with his tax cuts and accounted for approximately $140 billion dollars per year in INTEREST by the time George senior took over in 1989 (Watch the PBS interview with Reagan's advisors just after he died for numbers). SO.... don't blame the current Dems for that one.

Back to the original post......whoever left that note was a gutless wonder. My favorite response to eco-nazi's when they lip off to me is to ask them if they are vegitarians. I politely remind them that factory cattle farming creates 18% more greenhouse gasses than cars according to a November 2007 U.N. report. At which point I usually leave them speechless and scrambling for a come back. After that I go home to enjoy a steak.....

 

I do agree with you that people in the US tend to complain a lot more about gas than other nations, but then again we Americans complain more about everything.

I will say though that with the Europe to America comparison on gas you have to also include the fact that cars in the EU do not have the catalytic converters we do in the USA. So cars in the EU get way better mileage. A golf with the same engine will get 49 mpg highway in the EU compared to 29 mpg in the US.

Another reason for this may also be that they have higher octane fuel...the highest I have ever seen in the US was 93 where in Europe you can easily find 98.