?Electrical connections, New and repairs?

Hello All,

I have a general question about what techniques and materials are best suited to do high quality repairs and modifications to the wiring in our cars.

The ubiquitous blue plastic crimp connector has been deemed a "crime against Nature", by the much revered Carroll Smith, He even went so far as to say that he was ignorant of things electrical and therefore, had a deep distrust of black boxes and fuses.

I firmly believe that a good soldered connection is the best way to make electrical connections but have been warned off this practice "because it creates a weak spot where the solder ends".

It also makes sense that a fine stranded wire is more flexible and durable in our environment.

I have a good set of crimping pliers with replaceable jaws but still wonder about soldering and how to best make the connections.

I have seen adhesive shrink wrap tubing advertised in marine catalogues and this sounds like a good final step.

I am about to update the headlights with Cibies and relays from Daniel Stearns but would reallly like some advice on how to "do it right".

I am not looking to blow money, but getting there is half the fun.

Still mired in darkness, (only one low beam works). and yes, i have installed the Birdman's fuse blocks.

chris

 

Appropriately sized stranded wire, carefully soldered connections & heat-shrink tubing.

I am unaware of any better way to do it.

 

+1... Heat shrink should help strengthen any weakness in the wire at the end of the solder.

 

Thanks guys,

Can you suggest a non plastic coated connector to solder to?? Perhaps a good source??

thanks,
Chris

 

You wont be soldering to the connetors. You will be soldering the two wires directly.

Slip the shrink wrap on there first, slide it back. Solder together securely. Slide the wrap back over, and heat for shrinkage. Absolute best for electrical repairs.

 

You can use ordinary spade or ring terminals, cut off the plastic part, crimp and solder it to the wire and heat-shrink.

 

There is a better way. A friend of mine turned me on to technique that he used to rewire his Lotus with several years ago. It is a heat shrink connector that has a solder joint inside it. Basically, you put the stripped wire inside and using a heat gun you apply heated air to the connector. This causes the connector to shrink while melting the solder into the wire. Sealed and soldered. I've used this myself with great success. The name of the company is Del City (www.delcity.net). They are referred to as Heat Shrink, Solder Sleeve Crimpable Terminals.
John

 

Brilliant. Why didn't I think of that?

 

I would be a little bit wary of a terminal that uses such a low (it would seem) melting point solder. Might not be suitable for some applications.

 

It depends on what you want to do exactly but for something other than a splice I would use GM Weatherpack connectors..... or maybe even put one in at a splice location. That way you can disconnect or open the splice to make voltage measurements or put an ammeter in series for a current measurement. Other than the Amp connectors (the ones on the thermo time switch, WUR etc.) are pretty crappy on 308s/328's. Any of these you can replace with GM weatherpack terminals would be a step in the right direction.

 

I think that soldering makes an excellent connection. However some people don't really know how to solder well. I worked in electronics repair and a large percentage of the stuff we fixed was due to poor soldering. All I am saying is do a little research on soldering techniques don't just assume you know what you are doing because you have done it before.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with crimp connections, as long as it's a separate step.
It's the attempt to crimp through the insulation that makes those blue connectors a problem.

Crimping and *then* insulating works fine.

Shrink wrap only works if you have the right diameter. Most shrink wrap doesn't shrink all that much. If it's not a snug fit before you shrink, it's not going to be tight after. And it can be incredibly difficult to evenly heat a shrink sleeve in place, under the dash. It's one thing when you're sitting at a bench; but quite another while lying on your back dodging the ninja warriors going after your knuckles under the dashboard.

Crimping before installing in a fitted plastic shell works just fine, if you don't mangle the connection while crimping.
(And it has benefits over dripping solder into your face trying to cook a connection under the dash.)

 

Get crimp connectors from.. Tyco I think it is.
Those where the end which is crimped looks like that...
http://rocky.digikey.com/weblib/Hirose/Web%20Photos/DF11-EP2428PCA.jpg
...when the wire is crimped:
http://www.digitalscanservice.com/galerie/images/img_indus_crimp.jpg

Then slide some shrinking tube over it, heat it up, finished. There's reason why that stuff is standard in the industry!

 

Nothing to be wary about. First it is crimped, second it is soldered, and third if you have heated the joint up enough by using it to remelt it your in trouble and this would be the least of them. For the joint to have enough heat generated to remelt the joint would mean you have other serious problem and don't forget it is crimped. I've used these for years with zero concerns or failures.

John

 

A crimp connection is far superior to a solder connection anywhere vibration or movement might be encountered.

A soldered connection will eventually fail at the end of the solder due to fatigue.

I really should say a PROPER crimp connection, as there are many ways to improperly crimp a wire end, and only one correct way.

The correct tools are a must, as is the correct size ends for the wire, but at least as important is the orientation of the ferrule in the crimping tool.

On a non-insulated wire end the split in the ferrule must face the side of the crimper with a protrusion. On insulated wire ends the split side must face one side in the tool.

If this is not done the ferrule is simply folding around the wire with the crease opposite the split, and is much more likely to pull out.

Those who will disagree, as I’m sure there will be, should be aware that crimped connections are specified by NASA for the space shuttles.

Once again, in my opinion, Thomas & Betts make wire ends, everyone else makes imitations.

A note about the heat shrink solder filled connectors, normally solder has a melt point, and a re-melt point that is higher, I wouldn’t worry about them melting.

I have used them, but you have to be very careful of melting the insulation, If the wires are silicone covered it’s probably not going to be a problem, but vinyl covered wires can be.

 

I guess it would depend on the melting point of the solder and where the wires are run in relation to heat sources.... block, exhaust etc.

 

The marine industry has gone completely away from solder and requires that all connections be done by crimping. When I redid the 308 and rewired, as well as a full harness restoration on my old Jaguar XKE, all connections were done with crimp connectors. They work fine, as long as you use the right tools, good quality connectors, and do it right. It's much simpler than soldering, especially in tight places.

+1 on using crimp connectors. My old soldering gun is buried peacefully at the bottom of my tool box.

BTW, shrink wrap is good to use where there is any chance of grounding out a connection, or where they are exposed to the weather. I'd rather use shrink wrap than electrical tape any day.

 

Insulation on the wire would melt first.
http://www.delcity.net/delcity/documents/movies/performance_terminals.mpg
John

 

How do you know that? They didn't heat the insulation. What's the melting point of the solder? What is the wire insulation material made of and what is its melting/burning point?

 

Have used these for years with excellent results, on motorcycles, and cars. I have numerous other buddies who have used them on exotics, great results. I have a friend in New Orleans that wire a couple of Lotuses with them, absolutely no problems. Plenty of heat source from engines and such. Zero problems. Not only do you have a crimp, solder, strain relief (shrink section), but it seals the joint with the adhesive. Only way to go.

Also, I think your missing the point. It is no worse than a crimp joint, since this is what you do first, It only gets better through the other parts of the process.

John

 

I'm pleased you and your friends have had good results but I certainly don't agree with the "Only way to go." comment. Nothing personal--I've simply been in "the business" a long time. I have no doubt they work well but I don't believe they're suitable for every application.

 

Not seeing anything under your profile I can't reply to your business, but I have been a manufacturing engineer for 40 years, and have been lucky enough to work in several fields (military armament, commercial, and energy). I have watched as certain specs have changed over the years for the proper assembly of harnesses and their applications. I am certainly not a salesman for these, but have first hand experience with their use. They have been placed in some of the harshest enviroments and withstood the test. The applications that I have the most experience with using these are in cars and motorcycles. Like I said earlier, these are first crimped (mechanical and electrical connection covered), then the shrink section is done along with a sealant, after completing this the solder flows (as an additional feature). Case closed.

I would say if you require a mult-pin connection then obviously there are other solutions that are more appropriate.

John

 

So..... these are being used in Formula 1, by the military and in the aerospace industry? Is that right?

 

Patent release Dec 2003. I don't personally do any business with any Formula 1 teams so I wouldn't have that information, do you? As for as military and aerospace they have far more sophisticated systems for cable manufacturing than would be commonly available to the public. So, really my solution is the most reasonable that is readily available.

John

 

"Patent release Dec 2003"?? Is that supposed to impress me? Anybody can patent just about anything that is different.

No I don't do business with any Formula 1 teams. Also, I didn't see any reference to Formula 1 teams using these products on the website you directed me to. So I'm guessing they don't use them or they just want to keep it quiet.

Your various statements such as "The only way to go." "Case closed." and "So, really my solution is the most reasonable that is readily available." strike me as..... um.... well maybe I should be polite instead.... In any event it seems there is no tolerance for dissent here.

I've known about these connectors long before this thread started (so need to explain to me 3 times about crimp, solder, heat shrink etc. I understand the concept. Trust me.) I WOULD use these connectors on my cars. No question about it. I do not believe they are the perfect solution for all applications where they can be used (it seems you make them out to be) and I would not use them in every circumstance. That's my stance. You've got yours. God bless us everyone (as Tiny Tim or someone once said