French Grand Prix: Winners and Losers

Did you lift this from somewhere (in which case we need a source please) or are these your words?

 

losers

- the viewers here in the states who got a edited tape delay version of said race.

winners

- the tifosi, ferrari, kimi and masa.


just my $0.02

joe

 

Davies seems to have a bit of McLaren bias. Why bring up the Massa pass from Montreal? That was clean and completed underneath two cars that pushed wide on a crumbling corner. And even if Massa so severely cut the apex of the Casino hairpin, that's hardly a quicker line through the turn. Nowhere near comparable to straight-lining a chicane.

 

spot on.

Racing agressively is one thing, and another way different is cutting the chicane cause "Im all hot and Flashy and have no grip to make that turn"...thats a very "Montoya" move...A decisive pass over a backmarker car, more than a second slower, that ends up in a mess...

Im sorry but he was WAY too stupid to make such a pass. He didnt even try to take the turn...nor braking, nor even letting the other guy pass and snatch the posittion on the straight...

 

Maybe Davies is blind in one eye? I can not find any other photos other than this one from YB, but Massa's tires sure appear to be on the asphalt and not in the grass as depicted by Davies:
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Having been to Canada and having sat at that corner , it appears that photo shows them just past the apex of the corner. They'd just be starting to get on the throttle at that point. Though many, if they're on their own through the turn, do go in deep turn in sharper and apex late to have more time on the throttle.

 

Even watching Massa's in-car footage it didn't look like he went off-line. I'm not even pro-Mass or anti-Hamilton. Davies just sounds like he's talking out his arse and bitter because God hasn't been able to save the Queen these last two races.

 

That photo you reference was taken at the end of the move as Massa was coming off the grass and was aiming to harpoon HK.

Here's a sequence of screenshots I just made taken from the Montreal recap video that is available on Formula1.com. It is very clear from this overhead angle that Massa made his move with his inside two wheels well inside the curbing, thus shortcutting the turn quite a bit, I would say. Judge for yourself.

I'm an honest guy, but if you want to see the video to make sure there is no image manipulation going on here, follow this link and click "Archived":

http://www.formula1.com/services/play_video.html

>8^)
ER
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I'd almost be willing to bet based on the position of the BMW entering the turn, that the last screenshot I posted and YellowBird's image were taken milliseconds apart.

>8^)
ER

 

Well well well ...... Thanks for that, just puts things in perspective, but of course beware! they call fact's on here BS.

 

I saw it was the old "Disagree with the message, why not attack the messenger?" defense. Apparently the message was right.

I hear they are going to have Massa back to trim the grass again in a few weeks.

>8^)
ER

 

Of course, but what I fear the root of the problem is, "The inconsistent application of the rules makes F1's race stewards a laughing stock", as posted above. Inconsistant ruling's, this causes the main problem when discussing it on here , adapt or interpret the rules to suit there case,

And of course there is the matter of totally blinkered folk ...

 

oh god, get over it, golden child was penalised by the clerk of the course who just may have some more F1 expertise than you lot

I remember MS getting some iffy penalties back in the Benetton days, 3 race suspensions, etc , he got it, took it and moved on, you lot want a court case over every move and utterance

A few frame grabs on a hairpin with one driver ????

where's the footage of Hamilton on the same hairpin, or Kimi, or Kubica, etc ??

heard of clutching at straws ???

 

Actually you don't have to be British to find the penalties imposed on Heikki and Hami unfair and one sided. It is Mosley's payback to Mercedes for their comments on the sex tape.

Both penalties were totally unjust. Just look at some of the Euro press (outside of Britain) and they think the same.

Webber himself said, Heikki wasn't slowing him down in qualifying and Hami was avoiding a collision with Vettel.

PS: I'm not a McLaren fan, but I want Kimi to win the title against Hami on the track and not with some misguided help by the stewards. He'll win anyway.

 

just because we ALL don't fall over ourselves about this 'kid' doesn't make US wrong, Mr Potkettleblack

 

so you think that Charlie is cheating ?

what about when Kimi got the drive thru for the late change of wheels a few GPs ago ?

seriously, you guys are looking for conspiracies when this sort of thing happens EVERY race and it depends which incidents you want to pick on.

I'll bet if you looked further down the field the mid and rear fielder guys have the same issues but because they don't figure in the WDC or WCC it is overlooked, I've seen many a drive thru, 10 sec stop, stop and go, for lots of issues which affect the outcome of the race but I am getting very quickly sick and tired of the uproar whenever it happens to the golden child or the McL team

PS I want Kimi/Massa to win on the track too and I find it hard to believe Charlie would cheat

 

I don't.

 

why ?

are you saying he isn't open to scrutiny ?

these discrepencies happen all the time, so now we're only going to pick the ones where LH or McL are involved ?

Massa was penalised for running the redlight in Canada last year, was that wrong ?

Kimi got a drive thru for the tyres, was that wrong ?

Maybe we should have someone like Damon Hill or Nigel Mansell do the job

I know, let's get MS to do it

no bias there and he knows what penalties are all about

 

so EVERY person that climbs a kerb is going to get a penalty ?

 

They're just bitter Glam boy's crane is missing in action this season,
as is Alonso's setup, so he's bottling race after race in freakish ways,
and dreaming of everlasting glory like the hysterical British press.

Meantime Massa and Kubica are hitting where it counts.

 

He's got two wheels on the grass most of the way around that turn and he clearly gained an advantage by doing so. Short cutting a hairpin is no different in my book than a chicane.

For the record, I'm no Hamilton or McLaren fan boy when it comes to Formula 1. My motivation for posting the screenshots was because clearly the facts in the article that started this thread were being disputed incorrectly. I remembered watching the video I pulled them from almost two weeks ago and it was very clear to me at the time that Massa had gained an advantage on not just one, but two drivers, by running off the track which should have forced him to allow them back past. Since he did not give way, that should have earned him a penalty. Race control and the stewards chose to look the other way on it.

I didn't bring it up here at the time because there was a big circle-jerk going on about how it was the pass of the year or something. Now people want to say he didn't have wheels in the grass - well the overhead shot courtesy of FOM shows it quite differently.

>8^)
ER

 

EVERY driver would have done the same thing but you're only showing the ONE driver ... and who here has said he didn't have the wheels on the grass ??

There is a HUGE difference to what Massa did there and Hamilton did at MC where he USED the hard (read concrete !!) section to gain an advantage when he got into a tough spot (no problem with what he did to save the situation but he knew and McL knew he would have to give the position back).

Massa didn't have to take evasive action to avoid an accident , what he did was normal racing , the other guys were slightly wide where everyone knew you would slide out towards the outside of the track, Massa came in slow and tight and made a good tactical move to pass the two cars without hitting either , and credit to HK when he realised Massa was coming thru and moved as Massa drifted out on the exit.

Also, funny how you would have so much more traction on GRASS than CONCRETE ... right ?

Bloody stupid argument saying someone with two wheels on GRASS are getting an unfair advantage over the guys using the tarmac

You can analyse every pass a driver makes and find good and bad but there have been many incidences where using the concrete infield to gain a place has been penalised, don't carry on that it is only Hamilton or McL that are getting penalised.

 

Well one person said it directly and another alluded to it:

- and -

It was a rather short thread when I made my first post, so please try to pay attention.

By taking the ultra-inside line, his left side wheels (the ones that get loaded up in a right hand turn) were on a section of pavement that was not as torn up as the section that HK and the Honda (I think it was a Honda) were using. Couple that with the fact that he travelled a shorter distance around the turn than the other two cars and you have the explanation for the advantage gained.

Take a look at these two screenshots as well and tell me how someone goes from that far back to that far ahead in this turn without taking the Massa shortcut?

>8^)
ER
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