Best racing schools/track car?

I'm by no means an expert, but had the opportunity a few weekends ago to observe a weekend at Virginia International Speedway with the Bertil Roos school/racing league. The instructors seemed very professional, the cars well-maintained, and the students/drivers had a real blast. During the first day, the drivers had practice sessions around the track, and had quality time with the instructors afterwards with constructive critique of their performance during the session. It was well-organized, relatively safe, and loads of fun...

Just my .02... unadjusted for the new exchange rate or inflation, real or projected.

Mike in Kuwait

 

Good question. Bondurant uses Corvettes. I'm looking into it myself, as it's near me in Phoenix and I'm massively overdue for a vacation.

If I were buying a track car, I might go with the Lotus Exige, just because it's as close to a race car as you're going to get off a dealer showroom floor, and there are plenty of barely used ones with ample depreciation already done. But it's a poor road car, so the Chevy might be the better move if you need dual purpose.

 

http://www.fantasyjunction.com/used-cars.php?id=6129ca030070574d224cb937a920b249

He'd stand out in this one.

 

I did Bondurant about two years ago. Was one of the best experieces in my life. My instructor was great, worked with my driving style and went from there. They were "regular" Vettes when I was there, and they had a few small formula style cars as well. Last year I obtained my SCCA license as well. I have been doing autocross about once a month since. Go for it, you'll love it.

 

I am a long time SCCA racer. I race in the World Challenge Series (professional racing part of the SCCA) and I am also contracted with Mini USA to race a Mini Cooper S in Showroom Stock B.

The first thing to do is join the SCCA

There are 2 ways to get your competition license. The first way is to go to a racing school like Skip Barber - if you take the right school you will come out with a regional competition license. All you need to do is write the check and show up. The other way is to do a minimum of 2 SCCA drivers schools - these schools are at a race track and the school is run under the sanction of the SCCA. This method will require you to either rent a race car or bring your own. You can NOT run a street car without the proper safety equipment - 6 point roll cage, racing seat, window net, 5 point racing seat belts, helmet, drivers suit, gloves and shoes. In addition there is a need for racing tires (Hoosier, Toyo, Kumo etc..) and racing brake pads. Some classes also allow aftermarket springs, shocks, swaybars, bushings and engine mods. You will also need a person to help you at the track for the SCCA schools as it is a very busy day.

I do not recommend that you purchase a street car to build into a race car. It is MUCH cheaper to purchase a race car that has already been built and has a log book. In addition certain cars do not fit into a class. Other cars are classified but are not competitive. A corvette is in Touring 1. The lotus is in Touring 2 and is not competitive.

I recently purchased a 1972 365 GTC 4 - After being involved in racing of the past 16 years - the cost of maintaining a Ferrari is no worse (probably cheaper) then maintaining a BMW World Challenge touring car.

I will be at Watkins Glen this weekend for a SCCA National race.

Be careful - racing is extremely addictive.

I hope this info helps.

Regards,

Fred Pignataro

 

as another relatively experienced racer (I have had a couple different paid gigs in a couple sanctioning bodies, but its not what I do for a living), I'd second the above. but I'd first ask what you want to do. Plenty of people have a ball doing HPDE events and never intend to go wheel to wheel.

I personally like the way on a club level the NASA organization is run. On the west coast, the people are more friendly, and there are many more young people racing there. Having mentored a couple youngsters from HPDE to race licenses, I'm comfortable with thier development program. But its a personal choice. Both SCCA and NASA can be good. But for HPDE, there are tons more groups depending on your schedule and the tracks you are looking at.

As far as cars go for track days, the lotus is a difficult car to drive well. And for a beginner, the corvette has too much power. if you are looking to hone your skills, buy a cheap, low power, high handling car. It will force you to develope your race craft rather than relying on horsepower to go fast. I learning in a spec miata. one of the best cars to learn in IMO. If you can go fast in a miata, when you get into a vette, you impress all around you who are used to driving point and shoot cars. In a different vain, front wheel drive cars can be a lot of fun and require a different skill set to make go fast. If you can get over the "its a honda" thing, many civics, integras, and rsx's make awesome track and race cars. They key to buying a reliable japanese (IMO) car is that repairs are cheap, and so is servicing. using a porsche, corvette, bmw, mini, etc will create big repair or maintenance bills. you'll spend more than you know on brakes, tires, and fuel. Unless you have tons of money to spend, you'll thank me later.

good luck! It is an addictive drug.
Matt

 

Hmm racing a mini eh? You know my good buddys Brad and robby davis? Brad is the general manager at mini of charleston SC. He was the first to ever race a mini in the country. You say a long time SCCA driver? Did you race ssc (the previous class that the mini was in)? If you did then you would def know my father; jeff wendell. You know pete taylor? Joel Lipperini? ummm hmmm the list goes on and on . My dad has raced SCCA for like 30 or 40 years now. We are in the southeast i believe (roanoke VA). What doy ou know about world challenge BMW? Work with bimmerworld? Know Chan Preston?


And to be honest about the best car. Racing is racing... the price is guna be huge anyway you slice it. You are going to have SOOOO much fun in anything. I recomend starting at the bottom and working your way up. Buy an SSC or SSB (or i guess next year they will be the same?) and learn how to ACTUALLY drive. I am sure the guy my dad rubbed last year in his SSC dodge neon is lurking here. It was a black 360 or 430. He couldnt corner to save his life. He relied on his power.... and you will not win any races relying on power... So go with a cheap car... learn the basics then move up to like a t2 or t1 car. then do whatever you want. But if you are like a lot of guys, you will refuse "to go with anything less then 500hp" and you will not learn how to drive and only corner. I guarantee (!) that the drivers that are getting national championships in SSC could beat those in Formula atlantic or another "cubic dollars" class. In a class (i cant remember the name right now) there is a new car out. It is ONLY carbon fiber... it costs about 100k... but aside from the 2 drivers... 3rd place was putting lap times in that were 12 seconds behind the carbon fiber one. If you want to spend the money you will... just take it from someone who somewhat knows what hes talking about (tho my dad would completely disagree )... go with something cheap to learn with and then go as high as you want. But i hope to see you out there! If you ever here "jeff Wendell" or "daniel wendell please report to timing and scoring to speak with the head stuards" then that is us and then come and introduce yourself.

But there are so many cool people around it is SOOO much fun! I grew up riding my bike around the paddock (the stuards frown upon that however). YOU WILL LOVE IT!

 

"Hmm racing a mini eh? You know my good buddys Brad and robby davis? Brad is the general manager at mini of charleston SC. He was the first to ever race a mini in the country. You say a long time SCCA driver? Did you race ssc (the previous class that the mini was in)? If you did then you would def know my father; jeff wendell. You know pete taylor? Joel Lipperini? ummm hmmm the list goes on and on . My dad has raced SCCA for like 30 or 40 years now. We are in the southeast i believe (roanoke VA). What doy ou know about world challenge BMW? Work with bimmerworld? Know Chan Preston?"

I know Brad and Robby - I raced against Robbie at Summit Point this year - Set the track record and then broke a drive dhaft with 2 laps to go. I also know Joel Lipperini and have raced against Pete Taylor at the runnoffs in 2006. I know your fathers name - I probably would recognize him if I saw him.

With regard to World Challenge - I have a E46 BMW that I run in World Challenge. It is a monster of a car. I also had a E36 World Challenge BMW, A Ford Contour World Challenge car and a Mazda RX7 World Challenge car. I have been racing in World Challenge since 1996. I know the people at Bimmerworld and have purchased parts from them.

I am selling the E46 World Challenge BMW if you know of anyone interested. It is a great car that is ready to go.

Regards,

Fred Pignataro

 

I did the Skip Barber 3-day program a couple of years ago at Lime Rock and it was a blast...a great road track (although it needed a refreshed surface) in a great location. The instructors are first rate and the small class size provided plenty of seat time. With SB you have the opportunity to progress as far as you want (given your $ funding.) Your progress through SB qualifies for SCCA licensing.

As for a track car there is nothing like a Porsche.

My .02 ...Good luck!

 

O MAN! We were up at summit this past year also! Great fun! I wish you would have stopped us and said something. We drive a red NEON. Very slow... but were having fun. We are hopefully buying brads civic after topeka. GREAT GUYS! And i heard about the record time. We were actually padiked with brad and robby. Our cars were lined up all 3 of us. And dont feel bad about the driveshaft... dad blew the motor in our car.

 

Another poseur racer chiming in...good choice on Bondurant, you'll have a great time.

I'll be racing at Mid-Ohio this weekend. Someone tell Casey!

 

Based on my limited HPDE experience...

The C6 Z06 is NOT a good car for a beginner. That car can hit insane speeds and doesn't even have a cage. I would say...unsafe!

Momentum car is where it is at. Miata, Civic, GTI, Integra. One of my instructors drove a basically stock Integra (gutted and a cage) faster than 98% of the other cars out there.

Some other good cars for track duty would be a C4 corvette, F-body (yes you CAN make them handle, the CMC/AI guys run REALLY fast out there but are also good drivers), WRX, Evo, STI (AWD push and are very predictable.) Older 911s, 944s, 924s, 240sx (timing chain, indestructable), E30 or E36. Yeah, these are all not super flashy cars, most can be had for under $20k and alot for well under $10k but you can drive them fast, not worry about totally a $70k car, and have skills that will translate over the F-car (well ANY car).

Also think about what you are willing to walk away from if you total it. Your insurance may or may not cover damage during an HPDE.

What am I looking for? An air cooled 911.

 

+1

My first couple of HPDE events were in the 456. Not a good idea for a total rookie. Possibly not a good idea at all.

However, I was completely hooked and started looking for a track car. I considered the Miata, the E30 and the 944 and chose the 944 because it was larger than the Mazda and less expensive than the BMW. I paid $5k for a normally aspirated '86 with 105k miles. Even bone stock it was great fun on the track and outstanding to learn in. And I could afford to stuff it.

I recently started racing in NASA 944 Cup, a class that permits extensive suspension mods but almost nothing to the engine. One reason I started racing is that most DE events don't allow passing in corners. That restriction is unbelievably frustrating in a low-hp car. On the other hand, there's nothing like filling the mirrors of a 911 on every corner even if he does walk away in the straights.

BTW: If you are attending a racing school with little or no experience, you might want to take it again after you have been driving for awhile. I did Skippy School after only a few events, and although I learned a lot (and enjoyed myself) I didn't get as much out of it as I would today, only two years later.

 

Do you race in the Great Lakes region? Were you at M-O last weekend?

 

"We don't wake up for less than $10,000 a day" - first thing I thought of

 

I got my SCCA license after doing the skipb 3-day and 2-day advanced schools. After doing the math I'd opt for their arrive and drive and race series programs before doing your own car (less expensive that way).

 

I use my Evo9 RS at the track. with some minor mods and slicks a good driver can take on just about any car. plus the car is raw since it doesnt have ABS and or any computer aids. one can go thru a set of brakes and tires in one day at the track. look up some of the fastest times at willow springs on the speedventures website and that will give you a good idea as to what cars do well on track. a better car will only allow you to mask your mistakes with power and better braking in the straights and cost you more when you wreck it.

 

I can tell you from (bitter!) experience that at least my insurance covered it [Farmers BTW]

They initially put the claim "under investigation", at which point I thought "here we go!..." The investigator called me and the only things he asked was that I wasn't practicing/qualifying/racing and no stopwatches were involved. He also called the organizers of the event to verify that it was indeed an HPDE event.

As long as it *really* is a DE the ins co is generally happy as they encourage these events - "Improve your driving"" etc.

Just my 02c, and as always, YMMV,

cheers,
Ian

 

your math is quite bad. 1 year of skip barber is far far more expensive than 1 year on your own in a similar car. in a nice modern car, it takes only about 2 years to break even and that even includes having to buy a new car ... which you can sell an recoup a lot of the cost.