George Kacher is one of the most respected European motoring journalists. He writes for top mags in the UK, Europe and the US. He has his (rare) moments of odd comments, but I think most journalists try too hard to invent an "angle" when they're reviewing cars - their job is to be entertaining as well as informative.
Thanks to everyone but especially 360c for his reply - I got a lot more than I bargained for when I stumbled upon ferrarichat and started asking a few questions . I share my experience on other internet forums where I have more expertise and it's via this sort of thing that people can learn a great deal - so thankyou. To 360c - I understand your position and will look forward to further updates once things are cleared up. I did manage to track down most of your posts on the subject .....I see the above summary didn't even cover the "wavy" sideskirts and torn door lining etc...... You've had to put up with so much crap and , forgetting the dealer for a moment, the sideskirts issue really bothers me because that is a real indication of poor quality control coming out of Italy. As far as the seats go I have been madly gathering as much info on GT and GT-S as I can for the last month. At last count I had a couple of dozen reviews on each model either in print or on the internet and I'd say 80% of them mention the hard/high/uncomfortable seats as an issue so I'm not just basing that off one review. I am sceptical of individual reviews as much of this comes down to individual taste and expectations but when a large cross section of reviewers mention something I begin to take notice. The other point to note there is that the GT-S seats (see attached) are a bit different. They have a very noticable cross section of "support" on the seat back up around the shoulder blades (see attached) that could be very uncomfortable if you don't fit snug into the "frame" (see attached). Apparently this is less pronounced with the full (regular) leather option rather than alcantara on the inner part. I should re-iterate that I am just after a sporty grand tourer that doesn't have sports performance/handling. I'm happy with my CLK 500 and if the Maserati can match it for speed and add some extra "music" and gorgeous lines then I'll be more than happy subject to reliability. As previously mentioned , in a GT I would prefer the "S" styling/exhaust and engine with the ZF transmission - that may or may not be an issue but it seems a whole lot more can go wrong with these F1 gearboxes. I'll keep following this thread with interest and thanks to all the replies so far. Ed Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks -I forgot to look for the function before posting, then went into Edit to amend and couldn't see anything. Eventually figured out how to do it via Go Advanced. And no - you cannot have my autograph haha. Ed
For what it is worth the Gran Turismo at SCC hasn't missed a beat (with the exception of driver related issues such as tyre/wheel issues from hitting pot holes) and the cars at SCC sure get treated meaner than most. It certainly has a better record than a lot of cars they have seen / have in their fleet. Speaking of SCC and GT cars - this was finally just registered and so I'm going to take it for a spin this afternoon. I'll let you all know how it goes
+1 I have been around a long time, know a lot of folks in the right circles and deal with people every day. There is an appropriate course of action. Maserati Australia and the dealer are working towards a solution that will keep everybody happy and calling out the dogs of war will not help anyone. At the end of the day, I have had one major problem that has proved difficult to diagnose and permanently fix. My car appears to be the only example with such an affliction (lucky me). The wavy sills are being fixed under warranty and THAT is a common problem. This is a design fault IMHO as it is a very long panel made out of thin plastic moulding. It sinks between the mounting points and creates the waves. The parts have been ordered and are in the paint shop at the moment. They then have to get the 3M stone chip film re applied and they will be fitted. I forgot to mention it in my post, probably because in my view it has been correctly dealt with. The seats. I really think this comes down to personal choice; but for me there is honestly not a problem. I do a LOT of miles and I find them tremendously comfortable. I am 6 feet tall and pretty big, so I can't see 6 ft 1 and probably a smaller build making the car unusable for you? Take a 4.2 for a decent test drive and give it a decent shot. Perhaps coming from a BMW or Mercedes with "comfort seats option" you might find them firm; but I can't see anyone complaining of them being unbearable as has been suggested in tests. Points I love about the Granturismo: The exterior styling is stunning and the personalisation program means you can have the car in about 4 million different combinations; but boy will you pay for it. My car has only 2 options- phone and red brake calipers. My initial spec had $40k of options; but I cracked it when I couldn't get what I wanted and went "bare bones" on the respec. The interior is just beautifully made and the materials are gorgeous. The ergonomics are great, certainly as good as your average BMW,my previous choice of daily driver (times about 5). The inbuilt phone system is brilliant and worth going for as an option. The sound system is great and the 30 gig hard drive means you can load all your CD's on permanently. I have something like 50 albums on there and still loading. The satnav is fast and the display is as good as anything else that I have seen. Performance. I would describe it as more than enough for the GT role it is designed for. Certainly the equal of your CLK 500 or similar. Try and push the car hard and it is a different matter. The only times I have found it wanting are punting it up Mt Buller and roaring around the back roads of Tassie behind a bunch of much faster sports cars. Lets face it, the car was never meant for that sort of driving and it is 2000 kg and the size of an X5. The brakes were fine at all sensible speeds BTW, so I see the stuff on the "S" as a bit irrelevant. It's never going to keep up with a 430, Evo 9 or hard driven M5. FWIW, I seriously doubt that the "S" will be any different and as mentioned, it's changes may in fact take away from the areas the GT is actually good at. I will be trying one for a weekend when the "S" gets here in a couple of months, so we shall see. Sound. The car is very quite inside and you won't hear the Italian V8 music unless you really step on it, or wind the windows down. The car is louder outside; but nothing like the barage of noise you get from a 430. For me this is fine as it is daily transport. I wouldn't bother fitting an aftermarket exhaust; but suspect others might. The videos of the "S" that I have seen seem to suggest that car is a bit too far in the opposite direction. I will know either way when I test drive one . Gearbox. I like the auto and I think it suits the character and nature of the car. I had an SMG in my M3 CSL and did 110k km's without any mechanical drama. The same can't be said about the Italian product in the past. I don't know how the new 599 type box fitted to the "S" will go. I found the CSL box to be a bit harsh at times; but it suited the nature of a sports car. I am not convinced the bang, clunk and rumble harshness of such a system gels with a luxury car. I 'think" the new QP has the 4.7 ltr engine and auto gearbox, so there is a chance the GT might have this too down the track. Would I buy from Zagames again? Yes, I ordered my Ducati Desmosedici through Zagame Ducati so I guess that answers that. The people try hard and the dealer principle is always available to step in and get things moving if necessary. There have been some frustrations along the way; but things seem to have got better now. You can buy from other states FWIW and I have several friends who have done so. The dealers have delivered the cars in Melbourne and flown down to hand them over. You will of course be reliant on getting it serviced in Melbourne and I don't know how that ongoing relationship would be viewed. Over and out until I get my car back tomorrow. Hopefully it's fixed for good this time around.
Thanks for all that 360c - sounds a bit better now than I had feared..........I think Pretty sure I'll still end up getting one of these (the GT-S) - just a matter of whether I take the risk with the first lot or wait for the 2010/2011 for some bugs to be sorted out and/or an auto option with the 4.7L engine . Seems to be a few too many problems with electrics from what I am hearing - the sat nav/hard drive in particular seems to be playing up for quite a few people. The only question I have left is why on Earth would Melbournians be ordering via interstate dealers without good reason? I'd be interested to hear from these people and how it all panned out. I look forward to seeing how you go and ,for that matter, how we all go with our GT-S test drives. I've been told October so we should all be a bit more sure of things by then I suppose. Most of the reviews I have on the "S" seem to indicate the difference is more than the small jump in hp would suggest - perhaps the sound just makes them feel like they're going faster than they really are Cheers, Ed
i still think it's a dumb system. inbuilt bluetooth is a better option in modern cars. syncs with all your contact numbers and inbuilt car microphone and speakers complete the system. needing to have a separate sim seems silly to me compared to the other option. lexus had what you've got in 1991 btw. and a 308 GT4 or a 308 GT4
People buy from interstate for all sorts of reasons. Price, personal relationships with other dealers, stamp duty etc, etc. This is the way it has always been for the 25 years I have been involved with exotics. The Satnav issues were common in the early build cars and were fixed with an upgrade. My car has been perfect in this regard as it is a Jan 2008 Build. There is no way the meagre increase in HP and torque will make a material difference to the performance of a 2000 kg car. No doubt the experience is more visceral and that can cloud objective performance comparisons IMHO.
You drove the GT and your first comment was "**** this thing is big!" Give me a small and nimble mid engined 250 hp and 1300kg car over a mammoth 2000kg, 400hp car on those roads any day of the week.
don't forget perception = reality! just like i think i'm good looking...it's my perception, so it's reality.................. to me.
For those that are interested , here's a short clip of the "S" accelerating from low speed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTbu5PPDj0I And one of the more recent reviews comparing the GT and GT-S from Top Gear mag http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2008/07/stories/05/1.html Ed
Quick extrapolation of 250HP/1300KG gives us 2080KG @ 400HP. Size and agility wins out over actual power : weight, it seems.