Chassis 1C/10S Updated Information

Jim,
sorry if this has been asked before, but are you bringing anything to The Quail, this year?

Regards,

George

 

Does anyone know the steering box numbers across any of the other earliest cars? 1C/10S = M01, 002C = M010.

Jeff

 

Please forgive my error on M01 versus M02.

Jeff

 

Is that bulkhead on your Dad's car? I mean is the Motto body over/on top of/attached to the bulkhead in your Dads car the one with the pass through for the horizontal Magnetos?

 

Gentlemen,

A minor point: To my eye, the stampings from both M10 and M02 look like they are from the same dye. However, the "M02" in the mirror picture shot appears to have something scratched out after the 2; possibly a 7, the other shot may or may not be clean but, in my opinion, it is too dirty to be certain.

Also, a comment on the bulkhead: The magneto openings seem rather crude compared to the rest of the workmanship; if the bulkhead is original to the car, how confident is everyone that the magneto holes are original to the bulkhead?

Regards,

Art S.

 

Does this photo from the Colombo book (page 89) with the caption August 1949 Marenello tell us anything?: The engine and the drive of the 166 Inter, or in pratical terms, the 166SC of the previous year, fitted on a REMODELLED chassis still built by the same firm Gilco of MIlan........


[IMG=http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9607/166iphotocomombobookmy1.th.jpg]

 

What I think this means is that Jim's car had horizontal magnetos in the early 50s, when the Motto body was put on the car.

 

I hadn't noticed before that that chassis has bolt-on rather than Rudge hubs. It seems likely to be the Touring Coachworks 4 seater also illustrated on p83.

 

Hi

Yes P 4/5.

Art

As they would be needed to fit an older engine not the current engine yes.

Best

 

That'll be 005S - a 1948 166S
Nathan

 

Even though you have no record of 10S can we assume that would be/have been a 1948 166S similar to 005S? Should the number be 010S?

 

That would make sense; 10S, if things were actually but with some sense of numerical order, should be a 1948 166S...

 

Hi Art
This is how I see it. If this is a later bulkhead (1948 or later) then it wouldn't need the magneto holes as Ferrari switched to vertical magnetos with the 166 engine. The engine the car has now doesn't need holes for the magnetos, so if this is a later bulkhead then why put them there?
At one time if this car had a 125/159 or very early 166 engine fitted it would have needed the magneto holes.
The real question is - is the bulkhead part of the Motto body or not, and JAWSALFA is hoping to answer that one for us later. If the bulkhead is not part of the Motto body then that is more evidence that we are looking at an early Ferrari chassis. Also the shape of the bulkhead may tell us more about the original body shape, which may also help.
With the lack of definite answers then it's all about looking for clues.
Nathan

 

If the dates are correct on page 89, showing the chassis (8/49) and also a photo of a car half compleated (6/49) than it can't be the same car as on page 83, as the date of that photo is 9/48!

 

I agree. In addition, I think the holes were punched in the bulkhead when the Motto body was put on Jim's car, circa 1953. Jim's car has a 159 engine, not a 166 engine....

 

except 10 being an even number would represent a competition car. e.g 010I is a 166Sc, and 0010M is a 166MM barchetta (which actually won the 1948 Spa 24hrs). But the S usually corresponds to a road car, so there is more anomaly here.
I do hope we get to the bottom of this one - it's fascinating!
Nathan

 

Correct. I had jumped to conclusions without realising there were 21 166 inter Touring coupes made.
Also I see that the hub caps on these cars actually cover Rudge hexagonal nuts, and are not over multiple studs as I had assumed.

 

Key thing is the word usually. Ferraris "accounting" systems in regard to numbers meaning something specific in this immediate post WW2 time period seem as screwed up as Alfas; if not more so!

 

Nathan and Jim,

I am hoping that your view is correct. I guess a better way of phrasing the question is: How mobile were the early engines? Could a moderately early chassis (010) received an early engine (1C), as a replacement, after leaving the factory, thus necessitating the addition of the magneto holes?

Regards,

Art S.

 

Not likely. The early engines were very rare. As an aside does 01C/010I have horizontal magnetos?

 

Just though of something. Although the early design for the 125 was done by Colombo, it was really Busso that was involved in the execution. I'm wondering if there is some way to determine any differences between the execution of Busso and the changes made by Colombo, when he returned in 1/1948 to Ferrari and Busso went back to Alfa.

As to 01C/010I, I don't remember if it has horizontal or vertical magnetos.

 

Since we are now looking at the engine again - where are casting codes and what should they look like that can be checked on the various engine parts? I am thinking of items like the block, the heads, intake manifold, etc. that could date the parts beyond any stamped serial number.

Jeff