Chassis 1C/10S Updated Information

What does anyone know about any early 125/159/earliest 166 that may have been changed from horizontal to vertical? What parts should be looked at for evidence of the change?

Jeff

 

The engine is a later engine. It's not 125/159.

 

What it has now I'm not sure, but it was fitted with an early horizontal magneto 166 engine when Dudley Folland owned it.
Nathan

 

That would lead me to believe that it is an early engine as you've said.

A total real mystery for sure. I wonder if this was the first chassis that Enzo felt was too heavy and never used/scrapped that someone collected and built up or Ferrari built up as 10S? Didn't someone (Stu?) say Enzo rejected the first chassis as too heavy and another lighter one was built up for the First car???

 

Just found this photo I took. Looks like it had horizontal magnetos in 1970/80s.
Nathan
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I am looking at the picture of the bulkhead picture with the two holes and two things occue to me.The bulkhead holes I have seen pictured were round to form fit the magnetos fitting thru.These holes seem oval in shape and considerably larger. But, you ask. if they are not for the magnetos what were they for.The other thing I noticed is that these holes seem to low down for the magnetos.. These are just observations which hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I can explain. just one man"s opinion tongascrew

 

They're for the magnetos. You have to be careful looking at photo's as the angle and the lens distort things. Digital camera's often distort things as well.

If the bulkhead is not part of the Motto Body and is original to the chassis it's VERY important.

 

That makes sense. 002C's original horseshoe shaped bulkhead is still in place with it's original stampings. Motto likely built this bulkhead as part of his body and slipped it over and attached it to 002C's original bulkhead. I suspect that's why it's holes are a bit mangled.

Now we're left with any 1C or 01C stampings where 002 is stamped on my chassis?????????????????????????????????????????????

 

No. What I said is I don't know if any chassis were actually built to the 1945 Colombo drawings in this thread (from the Colombo book). The w/b on the Colombo drawings come out to over 2500mm and I don't know of any car having that long a w/b...

 

Jim's answer is probably correct. It is likely that Motto built the body with no holes in the bulkhead, and they had to be cut as the body was fitted to the chassis. Easier to make ovoid holes and slip the body over the magnetos than remove the bulkhead and make smoother holes. I seriously doubt this is the original bulkhead fitted to 1C/10S

 

Photo of engine from Jim's car with horizontal magnetos:

[img=http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6127/002csenginevu8.th.png]

 

I think that would have been me. IIRC the first chassis weighed 56 kilos and Ferrari wanted it to weigh 50 kilos. Gilco apparently came back with a chassis that weighed 44 kilos.
Nathan

 

Damn - I guess it was worth asking though? The search continues..............
Nathan

 

Ferrari used a 5 digit technical information system in those early days and, despite what some say, the system was quite comprehensive and well ordered. (the big question is - what remains today?) Anyway - the design of the car was divided into numbered groups from 10 up to 94. In each group there are five digits; the first two refer to the group and the last three to the drawing used to make the parts. Eg Group 10 is the cylinder block and Group 68 is Brakes. So 68222 would be group 68 Brakes - and drawing no. 222. The 125 obviously refers to a tipo 125 car. No doubt this was cast into the brakes so that no one would need to guess which brake version was fixed on that car, as technical progression in Ferrari at the time was quite rapid.
So, if Jims car has a number earlier than 68222 (that's if 002Cs brakes are numbered as not all parts were) then his brakes are earlier than 1C/10S.
Hope this helps.
Nathan
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SF 11180 1F?

19
159?

E
5 ?

066952 H ?

0
366?

MO 10?

 

Woah - I don't know everything. I know a bit about 5 digit codes, but all these others? 11180 could be Group 11 - Oil Sump, but if it's not on an oil sump then I've got no idea.
Nathan

 

Where (if anywhere) does this info from Barchetta on 031S fit in?
John, does any of this make sense to you or your father, or do you think 1C/10S has just got mixed into the 031S story in error?



031S 49/jun/09
166 Inter Berlinetta Stabilimenti Farina, RHD
Date Result Event Driver # Reference
49 - .............
.. - .............., USA
53 - Joe Murray, Denver, CO, USA "1-1270 (CO)"
55 - offered for $3,000.- by Murray
56 - ............., CO, USA
.. - front grill replaced
56/may/20 Colorado Springs Concours
56 - transmission broken, stored at Collins Sports Car Service, Denver, CO, USA
60 - Buick V6 engine & transmission installed
64 - James G. Bernet, VA, USA "983 223 (VA)" C96 p4
65 - engine & gearboy only owned by Richard F. Merritt, Bethesda, MD, USA
72 - ............, GA, USA
7. - abandoned in the streets of NYC, NY, USA
7./mid - Edmond Williman, Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
.. 212 engine installed, Motto body from 002C mounted
93/dec - engine, transmission, driveshaft, differential offered by Dick Merritt for $39,000

 

Barchetta again:
Another mention of the body, but this must be spurious>

0016M 49

166 MM Touring Barchetta
engine 0014M
Date Result Event Driver # Reference
.. - Auto Club of Argentina, Milano
89 - Buenos Aires Museum, Argentina
.. - engine reported in monoposto in Argentina
.. - (Motto spyder body from 002C)

 

Nathan:

Where did you come by this information on the codes? I've never seen anything published..

 

IMO, this information just got mixed together and 1C/10S has nothing to do with 031S

So far, any attempt to get verification of any information as to being fact from/through the Classiche program has met a dead end. They want the particular car involved in their hands, and to be paid a substantial amount of money to even attempt to verify anything. They seem far more interested in using this program as a financial source and for brand promotion and marketing than simply as a source for establishing historical accuracy

 

Do we also wonder if Classiche might be concerned that this car could force a revision to their "known" history and all the ramifications that might have?

Jeff

 

IMO that will only happen if there is a number stamped where 002 is stamped that is either 01C or 1C.