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Chassis 1C/10S Updated Information

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by jawsalfa, Jun 28, 2008.

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  1. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    #226 Jeff Kennedy, Jul 20, 2008
    Ferrari stamped the chassis. When we know exactly what the stamping on the chassis, at the place where 002 is stamped on 002, the mystery will end.[/QUOTE]

    Napolis,

    I respectfully disagree to a limited degree. As I see it this car has several points of discovery. Yes, the chassis is the final issue of overall "production" sequence but the other parts like the brakes and steering box are significant in their own right even if they came from the parts bin.

    I believe, and suspect that others may agree, that there is some real murkiness in these first days of Ferrari.

    Jeff
     
  2. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #227 Napolis, Jul 20, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
    "Napolis,

    I respectfully disagree to a limited degree. As I see it this car has several points of discovery. Yes, the chassis is the final issue of overall "production" sequence but the other parts like the brakes and steering box are significant in their own right even if they came from the parts bin.

    I believe, and suspect that others may agree, that there is some real murkiness in these first days of Ferrari.

    Jeff"

    Ferrari has issued a Classiche Certificate to 01C/010I. Unless this chassis is stamped 01C in the proper place it will remain an interesting "Bitsa". If this chassis is stamped 01C in the proper place taking into account Nathan's posting on 01C/010I's stampings I think there will be real question as to which of these cars is built on the scrapped/restamped chassis of the First Ferrari.

    Was 01C's original chassis restamped and used at a later time to build 010I or 10S or neither? That is the only real question.

    What this chassis really is and what 01C/010I's chassis really is, is all that matters.

    Early Ferrari records are clear. 002's Certificate of Origine and Bill of Sale for example clearly state the chassis stamping on 002. If Ferrari's records show that the First Car was 01C, the second 02C and the third 002 then that is the bottom line.

    If this car is stamped 1C in the proper place then the mystery will continue but I doubt it is. I bet it is either stamped 01C or 10S.
     
  3. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    #228 dretceterini, Jul 20, 2008
    Gilco was a subcontractor, and as such, any numbers stamped into their chassis were almost always stamped by the car maker. There are, however, some Gilco chassis that DO have numbers stamped into them. The numbers seem to relate to the date of manufacture.
     
  4. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    #229 dretceterini, Jul 20, 2008

    Jeff's car is stamped 1C. The other car is stamped 01C. Certainly the zero must have some importance.
     
  5. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #230 jawsalfa, Jul 20, 2008
    Still no thoughts from anyone out there as to what the 10S might mean? Very curious that there would be NO known record of this # anywhere in the Ferrari history.

    Currently, the location where Jim's car is stamped 002 is covered with 40+ years of paint/dirt/grease and the only way to access the front crossmember location is to remove the hood & radiator. We think it prudent to document the whole "unveiling" process by video and formal witness attestation. This being said, it will probably be a few weeks before the findings are reported. We just wanted to manage everyone's expectations.

    Just a quick note of gratitude to all who have contributed their time/talent to this thread. Regardless of what comes of it, my father and I have certainly had a thrilling ride thus far...
     
  6. emiel

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    #231 emiel, Jul 20, 2008
    So have I! thank you so much for sharing, I will be patient!
     
  7. CMY

    CMY F1 World Champ

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    #232 CMY, Jul 21, 2008
    No talent here, but I'm certainly biding my time and eagerly awaiting the results. Thank you (and your father!) for bringing this to light regardless of the outcome.

    In the end you've got a great automobile that has some key components to Ferrari history. That is enough IMHO.
     
  8. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

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    #233 f308jack, Jul 21, 2008
    Ditto.

    Exciting stuff, and whatever the outcome may be, your car is always unique and significant.

    I've learnt a great deal about a piece of Ferrari history that I had not looked into too deep previously.

    The wait begins!
     
  9. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    #234 tongascrew, Jul 21, 2008
    Hi so where does 001 fit into the history books or did it never really exist??? just one man's opinion. tongascrew
     
  10. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

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    #235 tongascrew, Jul 21, 2008
    Yes there is a thought about 10S. It was stamped on there by the original builder of 1C/10S when he built this chassis from parts taken from the Ferrari "scrap heap" to confuse later historians and drive every crazy!!! just one man's opinion tongascrew
     
  11. piloti

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    #236 piloti, Jul 21, 2008
    I PMed John for more information on 1C/10S; specifically on the chassis. He replied that the wheelbase is 2420mm and the main chassis tubes are size 92 x 55mm. John has given me permission to post my reply.
    This gets more intriguing. Are we going to have to re-write early Ferrari history? Who knows?
    Nathan
     
  12. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #237 Napolis, Jul 21, 2008
    It sure does. Could this be 001S????????
     
  13. jawsalfa

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    #238 jawsalfa, Jul 21, 2008
    Jim,
    Do you happen to have the chassis tube dimensions of 002 in your records anywhere?
     
  14. jawsalfa

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    #239 jawsalfa, Jul 21, 2008
    Nathan,
    Thank you for sharing your insightful research with the group.
    --John
     
  15. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #240 Napolis, Jul 21, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2008
  16. piloti

    piloti Formula 3
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    #241 piloti, Jul 21, 2008
    John
    You are welcome. I have always been a fan of the early cars and I find the research fascinating.
    Have you had any luck finding previous owners of your car?
    If I find any more information I'll let you know
    Best regards
    Nathan
     
  17. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    #242 dretceterini, Jul 21, 2008
    Supposedly, the first 2 cars, both Tipo 125s, were 1C and 2C.....but has anyone ever actually SEEN a car stamped 2C or 02C (NOT 002C; Jim's car)??
     
  18. Michael Muller

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    #243 Michael Muller, Jul 21, 2008
  19. Michael Muller

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    #244 Michael Muller, Jul 21, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2008
    1C and 2C - as well as 3C - had been speculations of good old Stanley, at a time where no information was available on these early cars despite rumours.
     
  20. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #245 jawsalfa, Jul 21, 2008
    The irony here is that Jim's car is frequently referred to as "002C"; however, his car is actually stamped "002" and, AFAIK, the original sales docs had it as 002 as well. It appears that it is through oral tradition that the car took on the "002C" nomenclature.
     
  21. Michael Muller

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    #246 Michael Muller, Jul 21, 2008
    I agree. Even I for myself continue with "002C". Possibly because the sister car was 004C.
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #247 Napolis, Jul 21, 2008
    Good Thoughts. I think 002's WB is 10mm less. Is that what SWB SC's are or is that a measuring error. That measurement is from 002C's FIA Papers.

    Best
     
  23. Jeff Kennedy

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    #248 Jeff Kennedy, Jul 21, 2008
    Can you divulge yet who the "witnesses" are going to be?
     
  24. jawsalfa

    jawsalfa Karting

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    #249 jawsalfa, Jul 21, 2008
    Candidly, we are still working that part through.
     
  25. Michael Muller

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    #250 Michael Muller, Jul 22, 2008
    Believe measuring error. 014I afaik has a wheelbase of 2250 mm, so most probably 008I had the same. This is 170 mm or 6.7 inch shorter than the LBW cars, which can also clearly be seen when comparing period photos.
     
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