I definitely think he would do well, but you have to take the "same car" thing with a grain of salt. Kimi and Massa are in the same car currently. Fact is, Massa is ahead in WDC points. Does this necessarily mean he is a better driver than kimi? Absolutely not. There are a lot of other variables, ie setup, etc... Remember last year people saying that Hamilton was doing well was because he was copying Alonso's setup and when he didn't, he did poorly? I'm not saying this was the case, but i think it's something that needs to be considered...
I don't know if he is the greatest driver, but he's possibly and probably the best in F1 right now, along with Alonso. The thing about Hamilton is that this is only his 2nd year in F1. Alonso wasn't this good in his 2nd year, neither was Kimi (although Kimi was showing signs of greatness until he flopped after going to Ferrari). But, oh boy, in the next 2-3 years Lewis is still going to be a young guy with several years ahead of him in F1... and he is only going to get better. He's the only guy I've seen in the last 10 years that I thought could actually have what it takes to be a Schumacher-esque talent. But time will tell... Schumi accomplished so much during his time in F1. He was amazingly fast, a superb talent, and he was able to put that energy into winning tons of races year after year after year. Some guys can do it once or twice, but to do it 7 times is just amazing. Hamilton could potentially be the same caliber of driver - time will tell!
Few thing's: 1) As I said it's the nearest we have got to go on for a direct comparison for equal racing in the same car not ideal but.. 2) It applies to most drivers that I compare, I measure there pace against a team mate. < Lewis faired damn well in this considering he was a rookie IMO, and as for this year we can rule out help with car set up from FA, and the later part of last season. 3) Massa and Kimi difficult one, IMO Massa has improved , Kimi is on his back foot at the min, not sure how much MS has helped Massa, but I feel Kimi is left out in the cold with this probably of his own making, he has had some bad luck ,and not sure where he would be in the standings now, if Lewis had not rammed him but maybe still ahead of Massa.. One thing I'am convinced of , is that the more Lewis tames his out right pace, with thoughtfull , racing like seeing the bigger picture instead of taking everything on (great to see I may add) he will be unstoppable.
If I recall correctly, one of the reasons that Alonzo was so mad was that Alonzo was the guy feeding the engineers data so as to allow them to set up the car properly. From everything I have read, Lewis was so "green" last year and had so little time in the seat that he could not give meaningful feedback to the engineers to allow the car to work at its best. The friction with Alonzo was caused when he gave some "questionable" information to the engineers and LH's performance suffered. Alonzo then demanded to be treated with more respect and the situation melted down. Don't get me started on Alonzo's obligation as a team member to share set-up data, I know all of that. But, being a driver is more than point the steering wheel and putting your right foot into it. Alonzo helped the team in ways the LH didn't. '
This is easily the most constructive thread of it's type in the past few months which I think is very impressive. IMO Hamilton has loads of natural ability helped by the fact that he started his career off in the #1/2 car on the grid. All the Alonso giving him setup data aside he proved that he could hold his own against a 2X WDC. If he continues on the pace that he's at and Ferrari can't catch up with McLaren in the development department I have a very strong feeling that he will be crowned the WDC for 2008 however a great rookie season and a WDC under his belt doesn't make him the greatest driver in the world/history of F1. IMO he still has many years of racing to do before I'd consider him up there with Senna and Schumacher (granted performances like the one at Silverstone don't hurt). At this point I think he's a jerk and needs to keep his mouth shut more often (aka fire his manager) before I'd want to see him in a Ferrari. Which are my same sentiments towards Alonso. However Alonso has started to grow on me a bit with the way he is acting at Renault this year so as long as he doesn't start spewing BS again I wouldn't be horribly against having him driving for Ferrari, but for now it's a no on Lewis from me.
I dont see the relevance in your point, in relation to what I said, I dont disagree with your point , but in fact it makes it more of a feat on Lewis's part as he was able to compete in car that FA set up, so in theory FA should have blown him away, as you said he was so green. FA was rattled, as he expected to be a chosen #1 driver no harm there, but he hadn't banked on LH being so quick out the box and he was not alone in that..
Amen!! Everytime I see a headline about Lewis being the next great one, (or Vettel or any other up and comer) that's EXACTLY my thoughts. Get some WDC's under your belt and then we'll see. Until then.....show us what ya got!
My point is that a driver is more than point and shoot. A driver is a "package" which includes the know-how of setup. Schumacher was a genius with this. LH was on Alonzo's coattails for much of the year. LH lacked this know-how. This year, he is doing better with this and his car seems good. But, AND THIS IS THE KEY, he still has not earned the title of World's Best. Not in my book and Not yet.
I really liked Lewis when he first hit F1. Now I find that it most impressive that he has been able to make me think he is a big ass so quickly. It has gotten so bad that I just don't care who wins, as long as I don't have to see his smarmy face in the post race interview. His success is actually decreasing my interest in F1, so Ferrari needs to get their poop in a pile and put him in his place. Now.
agreed, he is smarmy no offense Tony, but do we really need ANOTHER thread on this wanker, it just gives an excuse for tactical to do his Forrest Gump impressions
I don't buy this. There isn't really such as thing as 'setting the car up properly' because different drivers like cars to react in different ways. What Alonso and his engineers were doing was setting the car up to suit Alonso's preferred driving style, which wouldn't necessarily be a good set up for LH. I think the claim that Alonso was effectively setting up the car for both drivers is probably an exaggeration.
If you remove F1 from his driving career for a moment and look at his career prior to the start of the 2007 F1 season he did pretty well. Had won the GP2, formula 3 and formula renault and (thanks to wikipedia) european formula A series. But, again I had to use google a bit to find out the true stats, it is his races to wins ratio that is astonishing in these other formula. You don't achieve this as a fluke, you either have it or you don't. Lewis will be making his mark in F1. This is only his second season, granted in a great chassis but he has made the most of the opportunity and will only build on it.Lets be honest, he is living the life the majority of us would dearly love to be part of, I wish him the very best and hope to see many more races with his participation.
Can't say whether he'll get the title this year or Kimi. Could go either way. Best driver? Nah, that honor currently goes to Alonso. Best driver somewhere in the future? Hard to say as then we have to compare him with history and that gets tricky fast. Multiple Worldchampion in the making? Absolutely. Should he be in a Ferrari? Well, I would like to see that, but think it is equally unrealistic as MS in the Mercedes-McLaren was. So for the time being I'm just hoping and wishing that Alonso joins the Scuderia. That'll work for me as well.
Really simple actually. I have watched both Alonso and Raikkonen race for many years compared to Hamilton. Alonso has two WDC's,a dn Raikkonen one WDC. Neither of them absolutely threw away their chance to win a WDC as did Hamilton. Hamilton has only been in the F1 microscope for 18 months. For me, that is not enought time to determine his position in F1history. How can anyone suggest he is the best under these circumstances? Baffles me. In the last 35 years of following F1, I can not remember how many young drivers were considered the next coming of Fangio, but then just fast as they appeared, they disappeared. There is not way to judge Hamilton so quickly. I am a firm believer that when I see a driver in a secondary car doing great things, then he or she deserves the title of being "the best". So far, Hamilton is only in the top five or six for me. That's it. Maybe he will be #1 in F1 some day, maybe not. Maybe he will once again throw away the WDC, maybe not. But I will tell you, running into the back of Raikkonen and then dissing the rules instead of taking responsibility sure did not increase his stature in my mind. Right now, I just consider him a lucky kid.
Actually he did take responsibility, he apologized in general and apologized to Kimi. Although, by all means, don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion. Not to mention people who are actually involved in F1 such as team managers/owners and current/ past F1 drivers seem to have a higher opinion of him than you do. Hey who's this guy in this video here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq8q1g6aP18
Andreas was the one that said Kimi's fortunes turned for the better AFTER he removed his signature, so yes I totally agree with kimi 2007 2008 but Andreas needs to get rid of the sig Every race loss is a reminder of the abyss that the 80s and 90s were and I don't want to go there again
I do not give a rat's ass what anyone else thinks about Hamilton. What other people say in public and what they think in private are ususally two different things. Hamilton's public apology was BS. Even the British media was taken agast at his lack of responsibility, or did you forget this. An apology is not an apology when it is followed by a "but". As far as I know, he never came out and said in some form, "I screwed up, wasn't paying attention, and ran into the back of a stationary car in friggin pit lane...."". "But" he did criticize the red light rule in pit lane in virtually the same breathe as his BS apology. Some apology. Not! Believe what you wish, I may be harsh, but I felt the same way about Raikkonen when he had his faux pas in Monaco. Until he said in public a week later that he made a mistake.
I don't remember you criticizing Schumacher when he parked his car at Monaco. Did you hold the same kind of judgment when he deliberately took out Hill and tried to take out Villeneuve? He never apologized for those shenanigans. I'm thinking the answer is NO. You can choose to ignore Hamilton's amazing ability if you want, but those involved know better, hell even those who are unbiased know better! You can throw around that "throwing away the championship" car as well, but the fact is, as a rookie he performed brilliantly and far ahead of everyone's expectations. The one significant rookie mistake he made last year was being a little over aggressive on worn tires. If he hit the pit lane limiter at Interlagos (and it wasn't gearbox trouble), then he wasn't the only one, Heikki made that same mistake at Melbourne.
The discussion wasn't about his position in F1 history, the question was simply is he the best driver around NOW. So your comment - "So far, Hamilton is only in the top five or six for me. That's it." - isn't judging him? 'In the top five or six' could be anywhere from first to sixth - a little different from your earlier 'judgement' which had him 'a distant sixth'!
It is not necesssary to understand things in order to argue about them. As SRT Mike posted, clearly Lewis must be killed for the sake of mankind..
LOL hilarious post... oh you were serious! ROFL!!! Really just wiki Hamilton's race history and see just how "LUCKY" he is... Amazing! ROFL OBTW In your 35 years of watching F1 tell me which other driver has accomplished what Hamilton has in 1 1/2 seasons... you might want to remove the Ferrari colored sun glasses before answering...still LMAO
