Fcars Remaining On Market 60 Days+

This week I circled back on cars I looked at on the market 60 days ago. 75% were stil available. 60% had dropped price. What is everyone else seeing?

 

can you elaborate on the market? i.e. local market, authorized dealers, ebay ads, DuPont Registry, FerrariAds, Hemmings, etc. which models have you been tracking? how much of a price drop occurred on average? etc.

 

I'm thinking if the modern (360 and later) F-cars really take a hit people will actually drive them or sell them to people who drive them. Then my personal car will be normal.

 

VERY similar Ferrari market in Australia.

More than 90% of the Ferraris have been for sale for over 12 months I reckon. Firm prices are why they probably are not selling.

 

I'm tracking everything from the listings here on FerrariAds to dealer sites, Hemmings, Dupont and FML. The biggest drop seems to be in supercars and low end new models though vintage cars have taken a real drop in the last 30 days. It would not be fair to post a percentage yet because the big issue is that the cars are just not selling. Only the most aggressively priced cars seem to be moving, those priced minus 20% or more vs. 180 days ago. All of you can see the large range right now for similar miles/condition cars of all kinds.

 

Could you give some examples of the vintage cars with a 20% plus drop?

 

Said it before and I'll say it again.......we are in a Ferrari bubble similar to 1990 and with few notable differences.

 

Things are definately slow. And what I've noticed is that cars that do sell range from very clean to cars that I would absolutely pass on.

 

Its a buyers market, but there are a lot of cars out there that have been abused and not-well maintained. Not many Ferrari sellers are very realistic regarding their car's current condition and its value in relation to the maintenance upkeep (or lack thereof).

 

This is tainted data. I say this because I bought my car from a seller here on f-ads and the car is still listed for sale (seller did not update the ad to mark as sold).
And dealers on the web will often leave cars on there simply as a hook to get prospective buyers.

If you were to literally check on each and ever car that was listed, you will likely find that some have in fact been sold. May not be a high number, but this will change the numbers... of that I'm sure.

 

"Could you give some examples of the vintage cars with a 20% plus drop?"


Specifically, vintage Ferraris? The vintage Ferrari market seems pretty strong to me, even for higher volume cars.

 

Have to disagree there. One notable difference is that my 275GTB was worth perhaps $50k before 1987, and asking prices ran up to over 10 times that by 1990 timeframe. Even after crash, I sold in 1992 for area of 4 times it's pre-'87 value. I'd say prices for really collectible cars have not even reached the runups FOLLOWING the post-1990 crash. The market will decide, though.

 

I'm sure the economy has stalled the Ferrari market somewhat, but without more detailed data it's hard to comment.

New production Ferraris, like the F430 and 599, have obviously been dropping a lot, as expected, and I see a huge supply of 360s. I'm not seeing discounts on the three F40s I know of that were recently listed (one of which sold, apparently, at Autosport Designs).

I see a lot of Boxers sitting around, not sure about that. Dino 246s still seem to be getting astronomical money, unless they're all just sitting. I'd be very interested in either if prices really dropped.

Also, in general, I don't think 60 days is all that long to sell a Ferrari. Even in good economic times, it takes a special kind of gearhead to buy one.

 

The end of the summer driving season may see a realignment in asking prices and a clearer picture of the market. Or not.

 

In Europe it's not unusual to see Ferraris sitting for 1-2 years. I'm looking in the 30.000 Euro territory at well known car sales websites (Mobile, Autoscout, Autotrader). A lot of US 308 versions for sale in Europe that aren't moving but also 400, Mondials, 208s etc.
I guess there's a lot of bad weed out there and I know of a few good ones that sold quickly.

 

With a down economy and a stock market that is driving down people's investments - the people that can afford a Ferrari already have one, and there aren't going to be a lot of people added into this pool until our economy has an upturn.

 

There have been quite a few posts on fchat about folks selling their cars due to the market downturn... I wish folks well. I can't imagine folks will sell for anything reasonable. Under the best of times selling a ferrari takes a while (talking 308/328/testa/348, etc...not the high end stuff) ... right now it would be a bear. Who would even finance it? Many folks used credit lines/home equity loans....thats a thing of the past... Folks sitting on cash would rather buy realestate/etc...

I suspect that anyone in a serious position to buy would expect a spectacular deal, 20-30% off at least. I know I would...

I would love to buy a good 308. When they hit high teens for a good (not perfect one)...I may buy in...

 

Ferrari market for the most part is taking a sheet. Especially 360 spiders. Those are falling a few grand a month. You can see it, everyone can see it happening, they just made way too many of them.

See here : http://www.cars.com/go/search/search_results.jsp?ct=307&tracktype=usedcc&searchType=21&cid=&dlid=&dgid=&amid=&cname=&mdnm=360%20Modena&mknm=Ferrari&rd=10000&ddrd=&zc=93534&makeid=51&modelid=4196&pageNumber=&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE%20descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-|E-|M-_51_|D-_4196_|N-N|R-10000|I-1|P-PRICE%20descending|Q-descending|Z-93534&aff=national

Couple months ago 260 were for sale .... now 307........few more months 407 ......cars are sitting 4 months plus with no sale.....virtually impossible to sell.

Only going down, waaaay down.


I.E.
In 2000, a 1997 (3 yr old) F355 spider would still sell for $125k
Now, $65k

SO, in 6-7 years, a 2004 360 spider will be selling for maybe $75k, with 2001's selling for $60k

Believe it or not.

 

I made two fair offers on a couple of 80's cars but neither owner wanted to sell for less than their imagined value. One was abused and the other neglected, the latter has been on eBay about 5 or 6 times topping out at maybe $500 above what I offered.

So, in this case, not a buyers market.

 

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Sky is falling. Especially on 360 spiders.

I was going to buy one once they hit $99k.....but I've now reconsidered.

I'm going to wait until they're at $65k

Coming soon.

Trust me.

 

That seems unlikely, given the weak dollar. Unless the economy keeps sliding, in which case any modern (1990-) used car is going to be a hard sell.

We also just saw a record price for a classic Ferrari (Spyder California at RM Auctions), so I think the blanket assessment that "no one is buying Ferraris" is a bit out of whack.

I've also noted a couple of other non-Ferrari vintage European sports cars on my want list whose prices have continued upwards, maybe because real estate is looking so dicey right now (?) I'm just not seeing bargains on the really good cars.

 

But in the meantime, someone else will be driving a Ferrari and you'll still be "waiting"...

 

Absolutely true.

I just don't think it's worth it (to me anyways) to own a car that's depreciating $10k + / year......that comes out to nearly $1000 per month plus insurance plus maintenance.

360 spiders are free falling.


Nobody thought in 2000 we'd see this 7-8 years later :

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=21&pageNumber=1&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-%7cE-%7cM-_51_%7cD-_1402_%7cN-N%7cR-10000%7cI-1%7cP-PRICE+descending%7cQ-descending%7cZ-93534&aff=national&paId=270226222&recnum=74&leadExists=true

or this

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=21&pageNumber=1&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-%7cE-%7cM-_51_%7cD-_1402_%7cN-N%7cR-10000%7cI-1%7cP-PRICE+descending%7cQ-descending%7cZ-93534&aff=national&paId=263931994&recnum=81&leadExists=true

or this

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=21&pageNumber=1&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-%7cE-%7cM-_51_%7cD-_1402_%7cN-N%7cR-10000%7cI-1%7cP-PRICE+descending%7cQ-descending%7cZ-93534&aff=national&paId=136022811&recnum=83&leadExists=true


NEARLY 1/2 the price they were 7-8 years ago!

 

this is what is keeping the market from crashing. when these guys have to sell them (next year) the bottom will fall out. Top of the line 360 coupe is about 95k now. good ones are at 80k. real #'s not asking prices. they will be 70k before too long.