Hmmm an intersting take. I think what you are saying is possible but it's down to the car as much as the driver isn't it? I feel there were not as many competitive cars durning much of MS's career as there were in Senna's. Ferrari was having their problems from 91 on and didn't recover fully until MS came to the team. McLaren was nowhere from 94 to 98, so really all MS had to contend with back then was whatever driver was in the Williams. In Senna's day you had Prost in the other car, two top drivers (Piquet/Mansell) in the Williams and two pretty quick Ferraris was well. The Bennetton and Nannini was also a pretty good car. These days there is a much bigger performance gap to the top cars than there was back then. From 94 till around 2000 it was MS vs the car Adrian Newey designed. The rest of the field wasn't that close.
There is no doubt that Senna had tougher competition. Mansell was a GREAT driver, and even if he won the WC in a superior car, you are overlooking his results prior to getting into the dominant Williams. An even better measure of how good Mansell is is when he went over to CART cars, won his very 1st oval race, dominated the entire season, and won the CART Championship. He should have won a WC over Piquet when they were team mates at Williams, but he lost that due to bad luck. Piquet is a triple WC - no more needs to be said about him. You can win one WC because you have a superior car, perhaps two, but the likelihood of that happening 3 times is very slim, near impossible. I almost put Mika into the category of winning his WCs because his car was superior. It was only Schumey's incredible talent that allowed him to make it close. And Prost, one of the all-time greats, no one can dispute that. Senna beat him in the same car, but not always. I'd say Prost was equal in driving talent to Senna, but was not as brave, or daring. Questioning the difference in the levels of competition Senna had versus Schuey is ridiculous, it's not even close.
Mansell was also not very bright: I still remember him waiwing to the crowd in the last lap of the 91 Canadian Grand prix because he was so far ahead of all the others, and lost the race because he stalled his car... You need to have a bit of brain (to play mind games) to be World Champion and unfortunately NM did not have much of that... But he was a brilliant fearless driver...
Mansell was an odd bird to say the least, behind the wheel it was very exciting watching him. I remember him qualifying for Imola back in 90 and catching up with a backmarker and doing a 360 cause the guy held him up and he was waving his fists. He was a lot of fun to watch in the Williams Honda's in the Mid 80's. Saying that, Mansell as a brit was very emotional, seemed more so than some of the Latin Drivers of the ERA. To win 31 Races in F1 with the level of talent during his tenure does show something for his ability. Having said that, had Prost, Senna, or Schumacher been in the 92 Williams I think they would have won a lot more races, as they had less Red Mist in their eyes.
If MS was still at Ferrari today there would still be no competition. Thats simply because he not only drove the car, he practically built the car to perform the way he wanted it to and that is probably why he insisted on being #1 always, so he and he only would have input. None of this " but he wants that and you want this" BS. MS knew where he wanted to be and put his sites on it and went there.
Actually, Imola 1990 was a great race for Mansell. He was catching Berger who was leading at the time in the McLaren. As he went to pass on the left, Berger moved over on him and put him on the grass. This resulted in a 360 but Mansell kept it going and started running down Berger again! Unfortunately his engine let go before he could pass and he retired from the race. But I do think you're right about his temperament in general. If he had a cooler head to go along with all that natural talent he surely would have had more than just one WDC.
On a side note: Mansell used to blow his engine up on purpose by flooring the paddle on race weekends, in order to force the team to change his engine. Anyone know if Prost or Senna used to do the same also ? This is one luxury today's drivers can not affort to do.
I disagree that Schumy was unwilling to drive alongside a top driver...I read in an Italian magazine that he had promised his wife he would retire for personal/family reasons. No one knows the truth really but Schumy had nothing to prove to anyone in F1 so why stick around if his heart wasnt totally into it??? I wish that Senna had lived to race at least a few more years so that epic battles between him and Schumy could have been enjoyed by racing fans all over the world !!! I love them both equally BUT I would choose Senna hands down for a must win qualifying lap and Schumy (not so hands down) for 'must do' fast times in the pouring rain
I agree totally! This is the main reason why Tifosi world wide love him so dearly...he was able to build and setup a car to his liking..which is not an easy thing to do...ask Villeneuve or Alonso today! Ross Brawn idolized Schumy for his technical feedback during practice sessions ...really no wonder he followed Schumy around the paddock his whole career
Guys MS did not design the cars, Bryne did ... with a bad design you can only go so far forward with great feed back. Remember the F2005 design and what a piece of **** that was. Even MS and Brawn couldn't get the faults out of that design. You guys are hero worshiping MS with your eyes closed. He was great but nowhere near as great as you are remembering. Pete
Car was not a bad design, it was the tires. That year only three teams were on bridgestone, Ferrari of course being one of them and the other was Minardi and Jordan. Everyone else was on Michelen and it was also the year where the tires had to last the whole race. What do you expect when you have Mclaren, Renault, Honda, BMW and Toyota providing development feedback to Michelen vs. one top team( Ferrari) giving pretty much all developement feedback to Bridgestone. At the end of day we wont really know who is a better a driver, Schumacher or Senna? Things are different today.
MS was quoted saying that in 2005, he felt like as if he was handed a blunt knife to go for a war. i think the F2005 is just a screwed up car on the whole. the whole package just didn't seem to gel together. anyways, comparing MS to Senna is like comparing Lewis to MS now. no point.
+1, but the difference between the 80's and the MS era is this: In the 80's, any of about 12-14 drivers or cars were 'capable' of winning: and by that I mean if any of them won, it would not have been a total shock. Fast/Forward to today, and if anyone outside of Ferrari, McLaren and possibly BMW would win, it would be a TOTAL SHOCK. And up until this year, that list was just Ferrari and McLaren. That's the difference.
Its got everything to do with the statement you made about there not being as much competition in the MS years.....Do you really think there would be much competition if MS was still around. He would be winning as usual and everyone would be saying that its just a procession. Thats why he was forced out. If Mike was still around Kimi might be able to polish Mikes nosecone.
You really have to be kidding. This is your excuse because Alonso cant do a single thing to improve the Renault and you know it. If MS didnt come to Ferrari in 96 it would have been a whole different ball game and you know that too. If he came back today and jumped into the Torro Rosso he would have that baby into the top 3 constructors within a season and a half. I know one of his mechanics and he says that he was nothing short of a genius with the car on the track and in the garage.
I'll leave out your statement about "if MS was around now" being that he's retired and probably isn't coming back. (Problems letting go?) The point that was being made was about the earlier years of MS's career.
So do you know one of Alonso's mechanics too? The Renualt was around a top 10 car at the start of the season. It's now top 4 or 5 in Alonso's hands. It's pretty obvious to see. Take the blinders off.
