timing belt broke or ?

driving around on Sunday, stoped at a light, car stalls. restart car & heard a medium to loud pinging noise. Was close to home (about 1 mile) so I drove home and parked car. Major was just done on car about 100 miles/2-months ago. Took car to local Ferrari guy since major was done out of state and he says timing belt broke. Couple questions though. Why does car still run great minus vaccum for brakes, wouldnt the side that the belt is broke on not run at all? Im pretty mechenial and dont want to ship car dwon to guy who did major without being sure. The local guys pulled valve cover and he says he can see broken belt and that he needs to drop motor and pull head to see what kind of damage there is. Any advice would be appriciated.

thanks in advance

 

Welcome. What kind of car was this?

And, was this the same guy that did the Major?

 

90 TR, 19k on car. No this is a local repair shop. The guy who did repair wants car shipped back and says that as long as its in the work that he performed, he will take car of it.

 

On the BB or TR the brake vacuum all comes from one side of the motor plus a vacuum pump. If for some reason the pump is not in the game and the belt broke on that side it explains how the brakes went away.

If a belt broke the engine will be smooth but will die at idle and should be severly lacking power. If it is indeed a broken belt get on the phone with the shop that did the major ASAP and have a talk. See what they are willing to do for you. Nicely put the ball in their court and see how they play it.

 

Can't ask for more than that.

 

yes car runs smooth and does lack power so im guessing that belt is broken. What are the chances of valve / piston damage and is ther anyway of telling just from the way the car runs.

 

Valves for sure. Pistons usually survive if shut down but you drove home so no telling.

 

Fnania - listen closely to Rifledriver. I saw that you are new here, so you may not have heard that he is a most high one of our special gurus on mechanical issues of the Ferrari. He personally saved me from buying a Testarossa with bad compression and what turned out to be a broken transmission.

All of us Testarossa owners are hoping for you to have a good resolution to this.

 

How can a belt break a month and 100 miles after renewal???? This would be most unusual would'nt it???

 

Foreign object, maybe? Note that there is a thread in the 348 section that I am watching with interest...

 

thanks

 

can you forward the thread in 348 section. is it the same issue?

 

I know. Im now faced with shipping car back at a cost of 6k round trip

 

An unfortunate scenario, but it sounds as though the original shop is willing to back it's work and do a repair. this kind of supplies the reason for a shop needing a profit margin in the repair work despite what many seem to think on these forums. possibly a function of those dreaded tension bearings, at this rate we are better off NOT doing the services!

I would document as much as possible before returning the vehicle with pictures and estimate from your local guy.

Incidentally where are the locations, seems an expensive transport $$.

 

Agreed. You might want to get some other estimates. I never came close to paying that much on any of the cars I've bought.

John

 

Here it is:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=210723

But, the deal is that this car just had a little hole come in the belt, from probably a pebble or whatever.

Rifledriver pointed out that it probably DID NOT fail because it was a reasonably fresh belt when it got hit.

I guess other possibilities would be a bolt or nut got into the housing somehow during overhaul (god help us all) or that the belt itself had a defect. I think I would look around carefully for anything dropping out of the case when they dis-assemble it.

 

Really sorry for your trouble. I'm sure everybody is pulling for you.

 

6000$ ? Are you shipping it to Alaska?

Past posts on here put an engine rebuild (heaven forbid the cylinder/etc took a hit) at $40,000... So, shipping it would be small part of the cost to rebuild.

The shop that did the work has taken a very honorable stance... hopefully it works out. Take lots of pics before you send it over, just so there are no misunderstandings...

Sorry, this suc*s for you (and the shop)... what are the odds?

 

Sorry to hear the news. I am also curious as to what happened in this scenario. You may be able to involve your insurance company if the culprit is some type of debris flying into the area breaking the time shield and damaging belt. The breakage may also be covered by mechanics insurance policy as well as yours. I tried to start a discussion regarding this type of scenario. I would think your insurance carrier would cover the result of the failure. Not the failure itself. In a nut shell you would be responsible for the belts. Everything else would be covered. Especially since you just had this service done and can provide proof. Reasonable transport would also be covered. Not sure on 6K though. How far is your shop. Why does it cost 6K? Hmm.. If this mechanic was the only option available I would guess that the insurance company would have no choice but to cover the tow to shop unless there is specific provisions written in said policy. Am I off base on this? Thoughts are appreciated.

Robbie

 

Part failure and human error are the 2 best candidates but it could be unrelated and just "happened". It will probably be narrowed down easily. All of us have had these things happen for all of the above reasons and all you can do is find the reason, fix the car and get on with it.

Life ain't perfect.

 

Robbie:
Wouldn't this almost impossible to prove on the insured's part. I would think that you would have to have definitive proof (e.g., a broken cam timing belt protector and a foreign object embedded in the one of the sprockets or belt remnant). Also, wouldn't the insurance company try to indemnify the mechanic, by claiming potential error and/or negligence on his part? This could become a two-edged sword. If we (as owners) try to get our insurance company to pick-up the bill and they, in turn, try to indemnify the mechanic.... I'm sure this would just make Brian's day!! However, this is way-out of my area of expertise in the legal field. Why don't you start a thread on this topic. I really would like to get your input as an appraiser/investigator, as well as other FChat members.

 

It is a grey area. I think without a doubt they would try to indemnify mechanic or should I say his liability carrier. That would work out for mechanic as well. Unless he wants to eat parts and labor. I really think the insurance route is the way to go if possible. As far as debris : I think a broken timing belt protector would be proof enough. Who is to say that after the alledged impact it flung away. I think the best thing to do is first see what happened by a visual inspection. Either way I would hope to think that insurance would cover for mechanic error and / or flying debris. Brian would just have to state the facts simply - not his opinion or interpretation of what happened. What he thinks hit the car etc. or what mechanical error it may be. Alot of people make huge mistakes by volunteering too much information and opnions that are not necessary. Let the insurance company try to figure it out. A plus for Brian would be if it was mechanic error; this way his company would sebrogate and refund his deductible if any. As an appraiser I rarely - actually never come accross this type of situation with this type of car. Sure I have seen losses where mechanical failure causes damages. We only write and cover the result of the failure and not the failure itself. Ex. Driving on the roadway tire blows out and strikes a divider. The estimate of repair would include everything but the tire. Once in a while an expert investigator would be called out to inspect tire but that is usually when injuries are involved and pending law suits are expected. This scenario would be kind of cut and dry. The appraiser / insurance company would really need to have a good reason for denial. Brian could always inact the appraiser clause in his policy and get a secondary inspection and opinion if needed.

Robbie

 

As hard as insurance is to get and to keep in this state this would go nowhere near my insurance company. I'd eat it first. Insurance companies want no part of the Ferrari repair business and those that do ain't cheap. I had 3 companies cancel me ONLY because of the brand of car. The body shop next door got cancelled because they were afraid they would be on the hook for the Ferrari's if the body shop did something stupid and burned the building down.


But there is no reason these should cost any more than a Toyota to fix.

 

I completely understand. Unfortunately that is not Brians problem (Being said with major respect. Not trying to be a wise as*). The auto industry is crazy. The legal aspect of this type of case is out of my field of knowledge.

Robbie

 

Wow, guys - I think this going to insurance settlement business is way way premature.

First, you are going to desperately need the original shop that did the major to help set you right in the matter. I would not breathe a word of insurance, nor scream bloody murder about what went wrong, nor anything threatening as long as he is willing to stand behind his work.

If he finds a big piece of metal broken off, or something that could be a road-hazard legitimate loss, so be it. But let him investigate first.

Furthermore, I would find me a big pickup and a trailer and bring that car in myself. Then I would stay in a motel 6 for a few days so you could look him in the eye and see the parts, the damage, and everything face to face. I would be taking notes and getting pictures..(which includes pictures from your local investigation, as well as a statement from that mechanic). This would save quite a bit of the transport cost.

And my first words to original shop would be "thank you, sir - for being such a stand up guy about this." There is plenty of time for something else later, if you are really being blown off or something. Likely he wants to make it good for his own conscience and reputation, like most any decent businessman.