Ron : Hamilton the best in F1

Thats the fun thing about the highest level of auto racing, its always unpedictable. And we will see if LH is still in the lead after this next race.It has been a great season. I tivo'd them always worth watching again. Go Massa!

 

And just when did he ever prove himself worthy of such a drive, in GP2 ? So if Pantano wins this years' title stick him in the Ferrari, why not, he's worthy. You're reaching a bit there, Steve. Hamilton got the ride because of his special relationship with RD, a ride which Dennis himself didn't think Hamilton was ready for. LH has had an advantage no other driver has had before him. All other drivers go through smaller teams during thier apprenticeship. Heck even Senna started with Toleman-Hart. LH never had to deal with a bad car, so of course, his CV is a bit inflated. Oh and BTW, last year he only beat Alonso in a tie break. he didn't exaclty blow him away like he thinks he did. Considering Alonso was new and not comfortable with the team, I think LH was a bit lucky as well.

 

Luis, I know you and a few others, have this notion that because he wasn't in a mid pack car and didn't cut his teeth mixing it at the back of grid he is not worthy of his Mclaren drive, well IMO just maybe LH has just broke new ground with it, so you can either stay stuck in the mud in the past, or move on.

If you see a driver earlier in his career doing things you know are a cut above the rest, why not give them a chance in a top car it can only go 2 ways, a star or tara.

Lewis is the star like it or not, thats why you chat about him so much...

 

To be honest, even though I like Hamilton, I think that we have to wait a while to see what his career will be viewed as, just as people were wondering if MS would be elevated to a deity after retirement, so we'll have to wait till after his last GP to really know. One thing thats certain, he is definately very entertaining to watch and seems like a decent bloke....which are both GOOD things. Bad boy behaviour, in my opinion, is vastly overrated. Being decent and personable and courteous, now THAT is a challenge!

 

All the way through last year and again this year.

 

Read my post, I meant before he got it.

 

I beg to differ my friend, I do believe he is worthy of his ride, of that I have no doubt. But to say he was worthy of the drive before hand? Please, if you knew he'd be that good straightaway I need to bring you with me to vegas so we can break the bank. I also believe he's had it easier than most other drivers coming up. Ron Dennis saying he's the best in F1, is silly. He's never had to prove himself in an inferior car in his entire career. No one knows how he deals with adversity and pressure other than his choke in Brazil last year. I'd still rate Alonso above him. If the championship is down to he or Alonso, I know FA wont crack under pressure. We don't know yet if we can say that about LH.
He is impressive, but had Alonso, Kimi or a few others had a top car from that early on they'd have a CV that looked just like LH's at that point of thier careers too. He's good but he aint the best.

 

Well...Alonso DID crack under pressure last year. He was after all defending his championship! Michael Schumacher, he of Ferrari fame, said that he knew Hamilton was good and had been following his career before his debut but was surprised just how good he really turned out to be...the interview is on youtube.

Lets be realistic. Vodafone McLaren-Mercedes is a serious company. Dead serious. They are not in the business of putting drivers into their cars that they do not feel are competent and above the cut! This is not the little leagues...and anybody who knows anything about RD knows he is trying his very best to win. Hamilton has spent his career prior to F1 in both bad cars and good cars, and has proven himself in both....hence the jump to McLaren! Its okay not to like LH, but lets be realistic for a minute! By your logic, we should be able to put a certain Yuji Ide and get the same results, and I don't think thats an honest portrayal.

I do think that as of this time FA is the most complete driver on the grid....but that clock is quicky winding down.

 

Yes he did, the crash at Fuji was what did in his 07 title hopes in. He pushed too hard, nothing wrong with that. LH on the other hand threw it away trying to stay ahead of Alonso when he didn't have to. A dumb move period. A bit of a difference there.

I think you're misunderstanding my post. I don't for a second believe that you just throw any wank in a McLaren and he'll be good, that not what I'm saying at all. The post was in response to RD's comments that LH has accomplished so much in such a short time. Well yes he's had a great car from day one, he's good and should do well, to me he's no more impressive than any of the other top drivers because of what he's done. There are a few drivers that would have done just as well with a top car for all thier careers. A few not all drivers, lol

 

As much as I like LH, this is very true. Lewis let Alonso get into his head. A champion doesn't let that happen to himself. I hope LH learned a lesson from that. I think he has.

 

Fact: The 2007 Lewis/McRari combo was quick, on a par with the Fernando/McRari combo, on a par with the Kimi/Ferrari combo who was on a par with the Felipe/Ferrari combo. Fact: On different occasions in 2007, each of these combos outdrove the others.

Fact: The 2008 Lewis/McLaren combo is quick. Fact: The Heikki/McLaren combo is not quite so quick. Fact: Both the Felipe/Ferrari and the Kimi/Ferrai combos are quick. Fact: Ferrari has had 2 engine failures in the last few races - one cost Felipe 10 points and gave Lewis an extra 2, jumping him from 2nd to first place in that race - so it really cost Felipe 12 points against Lewis - Felipe is 6 points behind now, so without the engine failure he could have been 6 points in front. But that is hypothetical - that's racing.

Now, going back to Ron Dennis's comments, it's really all about mind games with the opposition. I would guess that his concern is that the Ferraris seem to have come on-song of late - very quick - and if Ferrari does fix the minor problem of throwing rods out the side of the blocks, then they could be seriously theatening for the remainder of the season - and 2 on-song Ferrari/driver combos against his one on-song combo is a big problem. So, when in doubt, psych 'em out!

What do you think?

 

Fair post, but I think you're focusing too much on his faults. I've never seen you analyze all the mistakes that the other top drivers like Raikkonen, Massa or Alonso have made. Despite having a top car, he's shown that he can match and beat Alonso in it, and smoke Kovalainen in it. Tell me, what if Kovalainen and Fisichella were driving for Mclaren? The Mclaren wouldn't be seen as a race winning car, if it weren't for great drivers like Lewis. The best ever? Obviously that's a stupid thing to say at this point, but it's obvious he's something special.

 

I know exactly what you meant. As I've said in other posts what marks a great driver is his ability not his achievements. Those who matter (and what you or I think is completely irrelevant) clearly saw LH's ability, they thought he was worthy of the drive and they were proved correct.

 

Look at Manning. Broke LH's records in Formula Renault the only time its been equivalent equipment. Did OK in GP2 with what he had. However he's looking away from F1 for a career as realisticly he wont get a F1 seat.
Give him unlimited access to the Mclaren simulator for a year or so and he'd likely do as well or better.
But he and we will never get the chance to know.
Point is, all this LH adulation misses that the UK has a deep pool of talented drivers and LH is just the one who wound up with the inside track to F1.

 

Luis, I see the point you are making, but lets say for example : A more experienced driver was FA 's team mate last year, and for the sake of argument LH was in there car, say Button, HK, Webber, whoever you think they would have matched FA in the same car.?

You rate FA as the best driver out there at the min, ok I don't disagree, he is probably the best all round package of a driver, but by that statement alone given LH was up against him in the same car, and lets disregard his CV, because this would have been the same if they would have both been in a back marker cars, the outcome would be pretty much the same, what more do you want, and why just to put the best drivers in crap cars, or is it just to prove to the old school racers that this is the way it has got to be done, because it's quite plain to see it isn't the only way, other than to gain respect from a few.

If you read on here earlier on last season, you would remember, LH was a called a unrelenting programmed robot, well I reckon it was because he just made it look too easy, I will agree he had nothing to lose as he was a unknown quantity at the start, but as the pressure mounted, and he appeared to have the WDC in the bag, the pressure and cracks began to show, so he has had
adversity and pressure.
This is not to be sneered at, quite the opposite IMO, he was afterall a rookie, and it can happen to the most experienced drivers.

So tell me when is it, or what has he got to do to prove otherwise, because it beggars belief to me what ends's folk say to knock his achievement in F1. I mean this year you can't even say he has got a car that's head and shoulder's above the Ferrari.
BTW I wasn't the one saying before he entered F1 he would be as good as he is, I didn't follow his earlier career, there are a few on here that did though I think. I will go to Vegas with you, I love it there..you will come back skint though...

 

I have to agree with Luis and you Brian.

I quantify that by stating that I do believe Hamilton did earn and deserves his ride with McLaren. I would also state it is too early and too myopic to think Hamilton has already qualified himself as a Schumacher/Senna/Prost/Lauda/Stewart, and even Alonso. Notice I do not put Raikkonen in this category. And the jury is still out on Massa. If Alonso were still at McLaren, I think Alonso would be out driving Hamilton at this point.

Having said that, there is no reason except the possibility of continued immaturity why Hamilton will not reach that pinnacle at some point in his career. He obviously has the car control, I just don't know if has the adaptability of a true champion/legend. I have no idea either way, for me its is a wait and see. I only hope he does not hurt himself or anyone else in the meantime.

 

+1

I'd rank him in the top 3, but picking an absolute best is basically impossible since everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Not to mention we've never seen how hamilton will handle a team that's underperforming. Both Kimi and Alonso have had to deal with that.

 

We don't know how it would have turned out in another team. It is unknown if Hamilton can deal with an underperforming team and car. A good car is far easier to drive than a bad car. I'd dare say I think it wouldn't have been as close between LH and Alonso had it not been anywhere but at McLaren. It clearly took Alonso some time to come to grips with the car and once he did he was a bit faster. I'd say the situation flattered Hamilton a bit.

What's he's got to do is stop talking like he's already the second coming of Fangio and go prove he actually is. Pretty simple.


P.S. Anytime on that trip to Vegas my friend, anytime....

 

Why is it that people become angry, when accomplished people speak in a confident manner? That sounds like insecurity to me.

 

Alonso doesn't speak that way and he's a two time champ, MS didn't and he's a seven time champ, Prost didn't and he's a four time champ. Need I go on?

 

Luis, he aint that bad come on, he is only chatting like a winner, and we know he isn't one yet,.... so what's the point of talking like your not going to be one, It's part and parcel of the job, and something for the ratpack to write about.

You think FA has a endearing manner.. come on man...he's a spoilt brat, with an awesome talent.

At least we won't waste too much money in Vegas we will be to busy arguing ...

 

No, Alonso just complains about every little thing, and drops hints about leaving the team that took him in, AGAIN. MS didn't talk too much, he just played innocent when he tried running people off the track, or parking his car, yeah that's much better. Prost also complained about Senna getting preferential treatment, and vetoed Senna and Mansell (eventually lifting the veto on Mansell) from the Williams team. All top drivers do things that can yield criticism, you just take you pick over which driver you don't like, and have at it. So yeah you go on.